Scottish Politics

[NorthLimitation]

Originally Posted by cosmictanya

oh is that why? silly old me...

see comparison vote shares of bnp/christian parties in glasgow north/ross & cromarty/dunfermline...

see comparisons of who has ever stood in my own constituency. or brighton&hove with the only green mp in the uk. or your own snp and its repulsive links with homophobic right wing christian donors.

london is devolved with an assembly - nobody is seriously suggesting it becomes independent - apart from the 'rainbow dream'.

it may or may not be a motorway - but that is called a soundbite. and whether there are exits or not, it's very easy to have a nasty crash on a motorway, particularly with hubris added in...

You think you're going to try to convert nationalists with language like this? We'll be moving to top gear if you continue to speak to what you insist are your British brothers like that

[cosmictanya]

well if your luggage was on it - and you weren't - it wouldn't have been allowed to take off anyway, so you can't have nearly missed it - because the hold would've been in the midst of being checked and emptied of bags, giving you time to get to the gate...

even if my mother didn't work for virgin atlantic i'd know this is standard procedure at all airports. for security reasons flights do not take off when passengers are nowhere to be seen but their luggage is in the hold.

[NorthLimitation]

Let me clarify one thing, nationalism does not equate Anglophobia, despite what many might claim. I see the UK as similar to my living situation last year - I just couldn't live with my best friend (who as it happens is English), but that doesn't mean I despise him.

[JohnnyFive]

Originally Posted by Quirinalian

New states to the EU are obliged to enter Schengen.

That is correct for 'new' or accession state, there has been no precedent of a current EU member state splitting.

The European Commission has always refused to get involved in this kind of debate regarding the subject of an independent Scotland or parts of other member states which are already in the EU too such as Flanders, Catalonia etc

We might see soon though should Belgium split and then the precedent will be set.

We'll maybe see these newly sovereign member states, who were already within the EU, retaining membership with all exemptions/opt outs in tact they had previously.

The bottom line is there is no current EU position on this as it has never happened before.

Originally Posted by Quirinalian

Ireland would never leave the CTA and make such a visible sign of difference between itself and Northern Ireland.

Read the information available, the CTA is 'all but dead' for the reasons I previously stated. The EU will be pressuring Ireland more and more over the coming months/years to join Schengen.

Originally Posted by Quirinalian

People see border guards as unacceptable amongst certain peoples. That's why advocating a position which would necessitate them would be electoral suicide in Scotland.

I am unsure what you mean by "certain peoples"?

Again, by this time the UK may be in Schengen, Ireland might already have set a precedent by entering Schengen.

Indeed Scotland could instead retain all it's current EU member status and just change sovereignty, we don't know as there is no current EU position available.

As we have no EU precedent then hearsay and scaremongering seems to be the default unionist stance over such trivial points.

This may be due to their lack of any good reasons, or a 'knock out' argument, over why Scotland should not be independent!

[NorthLimitation]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFive

That is correct for 'new' or accession state, there has been no precedent of a current EU member state splitting.

The European Commission has always refused to get involved in this kind of debate regarding the subject of an independent Scotland or parts of other member states which are already in the EU too such as Flanders, Catalonia etc

We might see soon though should Belgium split and then the precedent will be set.

Indeed Johnny, good point.

And for illustration...

Europe 1800s:



Modern Europe:

[JohnnyFive]

Originally Posted by cosmictanya

well you should've got to the airport a bit earlier then - there is nothing more complicated in it than that.

I would have but if your incoming flight is delayed then there is not much you can do!

[cosmictanya]

it might not for you - but for many people it does. and 'nationalism' per se is a dangerous basis to argue anything on because it does attract fringe (or core) elements. i'm not trying to convert anyone, just pointing it out.

as to the euro - well if you think frankfurt is going to be sympathetic to scotland, you need your head tested. if rescue packages for athens and dublin had proved too much to stomach for the german taxpayer (as they nearly did and still might) then there wouldn't be a euro to join.

on the other hand - i think your comparison of countries as people is really insightful - and can be extended to relationships between countries. i think its a really simple but effective i.r. method...

and as far as i can see, i think scottish nationalism is the political manifestation of a small man who can't accept that his wife has a bigger career than himself - so instead of supporting her, tries to bring her down...instead of being grown up enough to realise that marraiges are about give and take, and go through cycles.

[NorthLimitation]

Originally Posted by cosmictanya

it might not for you - but for many people it does. and 'nationalism' per se is a dangerous basis to argue anything on because it does attract fringe (or core) elements. i'm not trying to convert anyone, just pointing it out.

as to the euro - well if you think frankfurt is going to be sympathetic to scotland, you need your head tested. if rescue packages for athens and dublin had proved too much to stomach for the german taxpayer (as they nearly did and still might) then there wouldn't be a euro to join.

on the other hand - i think your comparison of countries as people is really insightful - and can be extended to relationships between countries. i think its a really simple but effective i.r. method...

and as far as i can see, i think scottish nationalism is the political manifestation of a small man who can't accept that his wife has a bigger career than himself - so instead of supporting her, tries to bring her down...instead of being grown up enough to realise that marraiges are about give and take, and go through cycles.

Aye, the European union is going to be extremely keen to see one of Europe's largest fuel sources (in oil) and its largest fuel source for some green energies (wind, wave and tidal) leave, isn't it?

I think it's you that needs a dose of reality - comparing Greece and Ireland (two economies vastly different from Scotland's) is just...odd.

[NorthLimitation]

Originally Posted by cosmictanya

and that map leaves out the cornish, but includes bretons - on that point alone it's fairly simplistic. where is the jewish pale marked? nowhere - because it's a political map which ignored anything it chose to - as are you in using it.

No - I'm using it to illustrate the fact that there are many more sovereign states in Europe today, nothing else.

[cosmictanya]

and that map leaves out the cornish, but includes bretons - on that point alone it's fairly simplistic. where is the jewish pale marked? nowhere - because it's a political map which ignored anything it chose to - as are you in using it.

[NorthLimitation]

Originally Posted by cosmictanya

it might not for you - but for many people it does. and 'nationalism' per se is a dangerous basis to argue anything on because it does attract fringe (or core) elements. i'm not trying to convert anyone, just pointing it out.

as to the euro - well if you think frankfurt is going to be sympathetic to scotland, you need your head tested. if rescue packages for athens and dublin had proved too much to stomach for the german taxpayer (as they nearly did and still might) then there wouldn't be a euro to join.

on the other hand - i think your comparison of countries as people is really insightful - and can be extended to relationships between countries. i think its a really simple but effective i.r. method...

and as far as i can see, i think scottish nationalism is the political manifestation of a small man who can't accept that his wife has a bigger career than himself - so instead of supporting her, tries to bring her down...instead of being grown up enough to realise that marraiges are about give and take, and go through cycles.

Resulting to insults once again Tanya and not even very good ones! Your arguments are almost as weak as your insults

[cosmictanya]

odd? i thought ireland was the comparison for scotland amongst nationalists. or only when it suits i guess.

greece has high public spending, a proud history, a distinct culture that it clung onto through thick and thin, lots of islands, history of nationalism/defining itself against a larger neighbour - turkey - which it mixes population with, a large diaspora, and various other things in common with scotland apart from decent weather. not such a stupid, random comparison.

and that map is entirely offensive, selective, anti semitic, out of date, and irrelevant. i'm really not entirely sure why it was posted...

norway has the highest oil reserves in europe - not scotland - and it isn't in the eu, has no intention of joining. russia and the middle east are far more important in that respect. 'wind' may well come to be important - who knows? it seems a rather forlorn hope to base a future on. france certainly isn't banking on it, having invested billions in new nuclear technology.

[cosmictanya]

no, not an insult - applying your methodology in a way you disapprove of because it doesn't chime with your heartbeat.

[NorthLimitation]

Originally Posted by cosmictanya

odd? i thought ireland was the comparison for scotland amongst nationalists. or only when it suits i guess.

greece has high public spending, a proud history, a distinct culture that it clung onto through thick and thin, lots of islands, history of nationalism/defining itself against a larger neighbour - turkey - which it mixes population with, a large diaspora, and various other things in common with scotland apart from decent weather. not such a stupid, random comparison.

and that map is entirely offensive, selective, anti semitic, out of date, and irrelevant. i'm really not entirely sure why it was posted...

norway has the highest oil reserves in europe - not scotland - and it isn't in the eu, has no intention of joining. russia and the middle east are far more important in that respect. 'wind' may well come to be important - who knows? it seems a rather forlorn hope to base a future on. france certainly isn't banking on it, having invested billions in new nuclear technology.

Yes, if you look at my post properly (which you clearly didn't), I said that Scotland had "one of" the largest oil reserves in Europe. The reason that France isn't banking on wind energy is because it has a fraction of the wind energy that Scotland does!



...would you like me to point Scotland out on that map? - you seem to know little about it!

And with regards to tidal and wave energy, Scotland has a larger coastline than France!

[JohnnyFive]

Originally Posted by cosmictanya

and as far as i can see, i think scottish nationalism is the political manifestation of a small man who can't accept that his wife has a bigger career than himself - so instead of supporting her, tries to bring her down...instead of being grown up enough to realise that marraiges are about give and take, and go through cycles.

I would prefer a different analogy I thought of and along the same lines as yours:

A couple in their teens (Scotland and England) have a short fling and she gets pregnant. They are told by their parents they need to get married for the good of the child.

They are both unsure but go along with the marriage, the girl is not in love but the boy is, and they try and make it work.

They settle down and get a house, job etc but the woman has never really been in love and dreams of other things and far off places.

They made a good home for the child, lovely house, good job, loving father but the wife still isn't content and feels unfulfilled and can't stop thinking about what could have been and eventually the child leaves the home to go to uni.

The wife explains to the husband how she feels, and he has done nothing wrong, they have a nice home, made a nice family but something is missing.

The husband thinks she is ungrateful, why would she want to leave, he gives her money every month for the house, she has nice clothes etc and they start to argue, he cannot understand so eventually she leaves him and in the end they get a divorce.

Both the wife and husband have done nothing wrong but the spark that was there are the beginning has left and she feels that she has a yearning to go off meet new people and see new places and have her own career.


I think that is the same currently with the relationship between Scotland and England.

The End

[cosmictanya]

as you can see from your map - if you used it properly - the pinks represent romance cultures/race, the blues (including both scots and english) germanic, and the greeks are entirely mixed into what is turkey - but showed as seperate races for political reasons as per the apparent date of the map. where are the cornish? where are the jews who had been housed in their millions in eastern europe? that map means nothing. without giving the source and reason, the evidence is discounted - basic legal principle.

[cosmictanya]

'spaniards' themselves, as i have pointed out, are made up of a far more complicated mix than a bulk, with catalans and basques on the fringes - yet here they are shown as one. all these 'race' maps used for political purposes are straying onto pretty dangerous territory.

[NorthLimitation]

Originally Posted by cosmictanya

as you can see from your map - if you used it properly - the pinks represent romance cultures/race, the blues (including both scots and english) germanic, and the greeks are entirely mixed into what is turkey - but showed as seperate races for political reasons as per the apparent date of the map. where are the cornish? where are the jews who had been housed in their millions in eastern europe? that map means nothing. without giving the source and reason, the evidence is discounted - basic legal principle.

Indeed, where are the Gaels?! That's me, by the way, but I'm not bothered - it's simply meant to illustrate how many more European nations there now are. Ignoring my post on green energy? Thought so

[NorthLimitation]

Originally Posted by cosmictanya

'spaniards' themselves, as i have pointed out, are made up of a far more complicated mix than a bulk, with catalans and basques on the fringes - yet here they are shown as one. all these 'race' maps used for political purposes are straying onto pretty dangerous territory.

Let me make this clear.

IGNORE the ethnic groups - and focus on how many countries there are compared to today - I repeat, IGNORE the ethnic groups. Do you ever listen?

[cosmictanya]

oh dear god pass me the sick bag...you're not the same person who posted a 'screenplay' on another forum about scotland being a battered wife who is ignored by her sister ireland and has ungrateful children called canada and australia are you?