NOTTINGHAM | £400m Extension of the Tram Network | Working Parking Levy | Future Networks - Page 17

Lears City · July 31st, 2009, 12:07 PM

The next general election must be held on or before 3rd June 2010.

The tendering for the tram extension is due to be completed by mid 2011 and by the summer of 2011, the project cost must not be above the level set by the Treasury - which might be under control of a Conservative government.

Good luck.

By the way I do support the tram bid, because I'd like to see something like this in all major UK cities.

Bingethink · July 31st, 2009, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lears City

By the way I do support the tram bid, because I'd like to see something like this in all major UK cities.

Me too.

And after there are trams in all major cities, I'd even support one in Leicester.

djfusion777 · July 31st, 2009, 12:23 PM

Thank god for that! Can't praise the scheme highly enough, we should definitely have one of the best inner-city transport schemes in Britain now.

What's the timescale then? Will both lines be built at the same time?

Lears City · July 31st, 2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingethink

Me too.

And after there are trams in all major cities, I'd even support one in Leicester.

Cheeky! Respect your elders.

***NCT*** · August 29th, 2009, 06:14 PM

Why do construction and regeneration projects take so painstakingly long in this country... finally some good news regarding the tram extension and let's hope we see construction soon.

Diverting the tram away from Beeston Town Centre is stupid - the whole point of trams serving town centres is attracting businesses to town centres through improved links with the city centre and other areas. The Beeston and Chilwell line will integrate Beeston with Nottingham, NG2, Meadows and that can only be a good thing.

Admittedly the Chilwell route is slightly disappointing in terms of reduction in journey time. It is expected that Beeston - Nottingham will take 20 minutes, which is the same time taken by the current bus routes. As much as NG2 will be increasingly important as an employment destination, I'd still imagine most people will want more central destinations such as Market Square. The tram will however still provide the much needed extra capacity and it will be much more reliable than buses with mostly segregated running between Beeston and town, so it will definitely be a winner at least during the peak hours. All things considered I think the current proposal for the Beeston line is the best one.

I would like to see the Beeston line branch off to Long Eaton, since this major corridor or conurbation is badly in need of a decent rail-based public transport system. Ideally it should serve Attenborough and Chilwell Retail Park along the way, but segregated running and avoiding traffic hotspots would require a lot of thought and most probably £££s.

It would be good for Kimberly, Eastwood and Heanor to be connected too, but the biggest challenge is, yet again, picking the route. You want to be able to compete with the dual-carriageway A610 in terms of speed yet you need stops in the heart of town centres in terms of convenience and regeneration the local area (not having stops in the centres would cause these towns to simply be dormatory villages without local businesses thriving).

As for future expansions of the NET network, I think anything beyond phase 2 would not be feasible in the foreseeable future.

Line one worked because it had the benefit of a rail link through densely populated areas, and stops could be located at or close to town centres (namely Bulwell and Hucknall). Equally importantly the A611 and A610 corridors are quite densely urbanised over long distances so significant journey-time improvements are made for long-distance journeys.

The Beeston route will work because the line can take advantage of the canal and railway valley for segregated running and a lot of development potential (Castle Marina, NG2 etc). It will also benefit the outer town Stapleford through the proposed Park and Ride. There is also scope for going all the way to Long Eaton, a sizeable town.

The Clifton route will work because of segregated running permitted through Queen's Walk and along the city/Rushcliffe border. There'll also be a considerable amount of Park & Ride traffic from the M1.

It will be much more difficult to construct viable tram lines in the eastern parts of the City. There are no corridors for segregated running and there are no outer conurbations (There's nothing beyond the ickle West Bridgeford, Burton Joyce, Ruddington and Calverton are just large villages with nothing beyond). Street-running trams will offer little advantage over buses and tram capacities are not likely to be well utilised.

I personally wouldn't extend the tram network beyond 'Greater Nottingham'. A Nottingham - Derby tram route certainly sounds good but I just don't think the Long Eaton - Derby corridor is populated enough to justify a tram route, and I certainly don't wish to see a gigantic conurbation in this neck of the woods. Improving the rail lines will be much more effective at improving inter-city travel.

As for the debate on whether phase 1 had been successful - anecdotally the line is very well used and I do believe overall capacity on this corridor has been significantly increased, therefore making a positive impact on Nottingham as a whole. It would be interesting to analyse figures such as initial capital outlay (infrastructure, depots and vehicles), annual operating costs (labour, energy, maintenance) and annual fare revenue, for then we can make a more scientific assessment on whether the line is doing well financially in the long run. There are other implications on tax revenue (has business increased as a result of better transport connection? One can study VAT and capital gains tax figures) and life in general, which are of course more difficult to measure.

shanley889 · September 14th, 2009, 08:25 PM

From NEP http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/ho...l/article.html

Council votes in favour of Workplace Parking Levy

THE city council has officially endorsed the introduction of the Workplace Parking Levy, at a meeting tonight.

Labour and Liberal Democrat councillors voted in favour of implementing the tax, which will pay for two new tram lines, improvements to Nottingham station and fund the city's network of Link buses.

Conservative members of Nottingham City Council voted against the measure.

The levy will now be introduced in 2012 at an annual charge of £253 per place. Originally the council planned to launch the tax in 2010 at £185 but the Government deferred the scheme for two years due to concern about the recession.

It will now begin at the level it would have reached by 2012.

Businesses also face paying between £202 and £646 a year to get a licence for providing spaces.

Coun Jane Urquhart, portfolio holder for transport at Nottingham City Council, said: "Saying no to the Workplace Parking Levy means saying no to trams, station improvements, Link buses, job creation, regeneration and no to environmental benefits. This is the right thing for us to do for Nottingham, the economy, socially and environmentally."

xcatherinex · September 14th, 2009, 08:54 PM

This is bad news all around.

On another parking based note - all Gedling Borough Council owned car parks are charging. Anyone have any thoughts on the matter? I HATE it, and flat out refuse to pay to park in one of those car parks.

BeestonLad · September 15th, 2009, 10:46 AM

This is great news, bring on the tram and sod all the petrolheads is what I say

Lears City · September 15th, 2009, 11:14 AM

I can't wait for your firms to move to Leicester and other nearby cities...

BeestonLad · September 15th, 2009, 12:06 PM

Yes because the cost of relocation will be cheaper than paying for a few parking spaces each year won't it?

If anything firms will just reduce the amount of parking spaces they have and encourage their staff to use public transport

Lears City · September 15th, 2009, 12:21 PM

Well rents are cheaper in Leicester and it doesn't need to cost too much to relocate. Reducing parking spaces and telling people to use public transport will go down well...Imagine if you are one of those members of staff that live 20 miles or more away from your workplace and have no viable public transport.

It would make sense for some of the bigger firms to move out of Nottingham. OK it may cost to relocate, but offset that against a few years of WPL charges...

BeestonLad · September 15th, 2009, 12:29 PM

Well I would guess that majority of people travelling in to work dont travel 20 miles and actually live close by to either a bus / train / tram stop, these are the people that should be encouraged to use these facilities. I only said a reduction of spaces - the remaining spaces could be used to cater for those that have no option of getting in via public transportation.

MattN · September 15th, 2009, 01:02 PM

The trouble is, as I may have said before, is that workplaces with large numbers of parking spaces are generally located outside the city centre, and whilst orbital PT links can only cater for so many needs anyway, Nottingham's are rather poor. These would also need to connect to other services e.g. radial ones to the city, and joining up public transport like this is something we seem incapable of in the UK. Until this situation improves you are never going to make PT an attractive option for employees in these workplaces.

Zim Flyer · September 15th, 2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeestonLad

This is great news, bring on the tram and sod all the petrolheads is what I say

I couldn't have said it better Beestonlad, petrolheads have had it all their own way for the last 40 years and look where it has got us.

***NCT*** · September 15th, 2009, 01:13 PM

Nottingham also has fairly good park & ride facilities at Queen's Drive and along Line 1 (Admittedly the Racecourse one isn't much of a success IMO). There will be even better facilities once phase two is built.

ben77 · September 16th, 2009, 03:01 PM

Brilliant news.. We should be discouraging people using cars if we actually want a world to live in in 50-100 years time.. Unfortunately individuals & companies base all of their decisions on the financial cost to them and hopefully this will reduce the number of cars on the road and get people on to public transport... Any backward thinking company that can't see that this is a good move overall for the city is quite welcome to sod off to Leic or Derby.

Lears City · September 16th, 2009, 03:09 PM

Surely if cars didn't run on non-renewable energy sources, then they would still beat public transport all the time. Cars of the future will not run on oil - and they will still need parking spaces.

So please do come to Leicester you backward thinking companies...

Metrolinkthesecond · September 16th, 2009, 03:18 PM

Really?

2,000 people per direction on a normal road when people are using cars as their method of transport 'BEATS' trams with a capacity of up to about 20,000 per direction.

Sure, the pollution issues surrounding cars MAY be fixed at some point in the long future, however, it is not going to fix the fact that they are incrdibly low capacity and take up a lot of space causing congestion problems.

No matter how clean car transport becomes with time, there will be more and more of a requirement for high quality public transport, otherwise we will all simply be sat in traffic jams all day.

Good work Nottingham Council - very progressive.

Lears City · September 16th, 2009, 03:21 PM

So does a tram take you from your doorstep to the front door of your workplace? What if you live in Blaby, Leicestershire near Junction 21 of the M1 and work in a part of Nottingham not served by tram?

duane · September 16th, 2009, 05:32 PM

Polloution issues won't be sorted for a long time. The oil companies don't want it and they are the ones with the money, to control the media and therefor an election. Did you know alot of oil companies have the patents for parts of electric cars, to make it impossible to replicate.

As for public transport, it has got to be faster than normal transport and it will work. Look at how many people use the underground from all backgrounds. England needs to invest in the Maglev train now. With speeds of upto 4000mph, using less power than a conventional train, how can this not be a key investment.

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July 31st, 2009, 12:07 PM	#321
Lears City Look there, look there! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Leicester Posts: 5,850 Likes (Received): 9	The next general election must be held on or before 3rd June 2010. The tendering for the tram extension is due to be completed by mid 2011 and by the summer of 2011, the project cost must not be above the level set by the Treasury - which might be under control of a Conservative government. Good luck. By the way I do support the tram bid, because I'd like to see something like this in all major UK cities.

July 31st, 2009, 12:23 PM	#323
djfusion777 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 168 Likes (Received): 0	Thank god for that! Can't praise the scheme highly enough, we should definitely have one of the best inner-city transport schemes in Britain now. What's the timescale then? Will both lines be built at the same time?

August 29th, 2009, 06:14 PM	#325
*NCT* Not Cwite There Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham Posts: 5,068 Likes (Received): 82	Why do construction and regeneration projects take so painstakingly long in this country... finally some good news regarding the tram extension and let's hope we see construction soon. Diverting the tram away from Beeston Town Centre is stupid - the whole point of trams serving town centres is attracting businesses to town centres through improved links with the city centre and other areas. The Beeston and Chilwell line will integrate Beeston with Nottingham, NG2, Meadows and that can only be a good thing. Admittedly the Chilwell route is slightly disappointing in terms of reduction in journey time. It is expected that Beeston - Nottingham will take 20 minutes, which is the same time taken by the current bus routes. As much as NG2 will be increasingly important as an employment destination, I'd still imagine most people will want more central destinations such as Market Square. The tram will however still provide the much needed extra capacity and it will be much more reliable than buses with mostly segregated running between Beeston and town, so it will definitely be a winner at least during the peak hours. All things considered I think the current proposal for the Beeston line is the best one. I would like to see the Beeston line branch off to Long Eaton, since this major corridor or conurbation is badly in need of a decent rail-based public transport system. Ideally it should serve Attenborough and Chilwell Retail Park along the way, but segregated running and avoiding traffic hotspots would require a lot of thought and most probably £££s. It would be good for Kimberly, Eastwood and Heanor to be connected too, but the biggest challenge is, yet again, picking the route. You want to be able to compete with the dual-carriageway A610 in terms of speed yet you need stops in the heart of town centres in terms of convenience and regeneration the local area (not having stops in the centres would cause these towns to simply be dormatory villages without local businesses thriving). As for future expansions of the NET network, I think anything beyond phase 2 would not be feasible in the foreseeable future. Line one worked because it had the benefit of a rail link through densely populated areas, and stops could be located at or close to town centres (namely Bulwell and Hucknall). Equally importantly the A611 and A610 corridors are quite densely urbanised over long distances so significant journey-time improvements are made for long-distance journeys. The Beeston route will work because the line can take advantage of the canal and railway valley for segregated running and a lot of development potential (Castle Marina, NG2 etc). It will also benefit the outer town Stapleford through the proposed Park and Ride. There is also scope for going all the way to Long Eaton, a sizeable town. The Clifton route will work because of segregated running permitted through Queen's Walk and along the city/Rushcliffe border. There'll also be a considerable amount of Park & Ride traffic from the M1. It will be much more difficult to construct viable tram lines in the eastern parts of the City. There are no corridors for segregated running and there are no outer conurbations (There's nothing beyond the ickle West Bridgeford, Burton Joyce, Ruddington and Calverton are just large villages with nothing beyond). Street-running trams will offer little advantage over buses and tram capacities are not likely to be well utilised. I personally wouldn't extend the tram network beyond 'Greater Nottingham'. A Nottingham - Derby tram route certainly sounds good but I just don't think the Long Eaton - Derby corridor is populated enough to justify a tram route, and I certainly don't wish to see a gigantic conurbation in this neck of the woods. Improving the rail lines will be much more effective at improving inter-city travel. As for the debate on whether phase 1 had been successful - anecdotally the line is very well used and I do believe overall capacity on this corridor has been significantly increased, therefore making a positive impact on Nottingham as a whole. It would be interesting to analyse figures such as initial capital outlay (infrastructure, depots and vehicles), annual operating costs (labour, energy, maintenance) and annual fare revenue, for then we can make a more scientific assessment on whether the line is doing well financially in the long run. There are other implications on tax revenue (has business increased as a result of better transport connection? One can study VAT and capital gains tax figures) and life in general, which are of course more difficult to measure.

September 14th, 2009, 08:25 PM	#326
shanley889 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nottingham (Redhill), Leeds (Uni) Posts: 10 Likes (Received): 0	From NEP http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/ho...l/article.html Council votes in favour of Workplace Parking Levy THE city council has officially endorsed the introduction of the Workplace Parking Levy, at a meeting tonight. Labour and Liberal Democrat councillors voted in favour of implementing the tax, which will pay for two new tram lines, improvements to Nottingham station and fund the city's network of Link buses. Conservative members of Nottingham City Council voted against the measure. The levy will now be introduced in 2012 at an annual charge of £253 per place. Originally the council planned to launch the tax in 2010 at £185 but the Government deferred the scheme for two years due to concern about the recession. It will now begin at the level it would have reached by 2012. Businesses also face paying between £202 and £646 a year to get a licence for providing spaces. Coun Jane Urquhart, portfolio holder for transport at Nottingham City Council, said: "Saying no to the Workplace Parking Levy means saying no to trams, station improvements, Link buses, job creation, regeneration and no to environmental benefits. This is the right thing for us to do for Nottingham, the economy, socially and environmentally."

September 14th, 2009, 08:54 PM	#327
xcatherinex Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Nottingham Posts: 117 Likes (Received): 0	This is bad news all around. On another parking based note - all Gedling Borough Council owned car parks are charging. Anyone have any thoughts on the matter? I HATE it, and flat out refuse to pay to park in one of those car parks.

September 15th, 2009, 10:46 AM	#328
BeestonLad PQS Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Abu Dhabi Posts: 1,931 Likes (Received): 11	This is great news, bring on the tram and sod all the petrolheads is what I say

September 15th, 2009, 11:14 AM	#329
Lears City Look there, look there! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Leicester Posts: 5,850 Likes (Received): 9	I can't wait for your firms to move to Leicester and other nearby cities...

September 15th, 2009, 12:06 PM	#330
BeestonLad PQS Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Abu Dhabi Posts: 1,931 Likes (Received): 11	Yes because the cost of relocation will be cheaper than paying for a few parking spaces each year won't it? If anything firms will just reduce the amount of parking spaces they have and encourage their staff to use public transport

September 15th, 2009, 12:21 PM	#331
Lears City Look there, look there! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Leicester Posts: 5,850 Likes (Received): 9	Well rents are cheaper in Leicester and it doesn't need to cost too much to relocate. Reducing parking spaces and telling people to use public transport will go down well...Imagine if you are one of those members of staff that live 20 miles or more away from your workplace and have no viable public transport. It would make sense for some of the bigger firms to move out of Nottingham. OK it may cost to relocate, but offset that against a few years of WPL charges...

September 15th, 2009, 12:29 PM	#332
BeestonLad PQS Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Abu Dhabi Posts: 1,931 Likes (Received): 11	Well I would guess that majority of people travelling in to work dont travel 20 miles and actually live close by to either a bus / train / tram stop, these are the people that should be encouraged to use these facilities. I only said a reduction of spaces - the remaining spaces could be used to cater for those that have no option of getting in via public transportation.

September 15th, 2009, 01:02 PM	#333
MattN Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Arnold, Notts (home)/Leeds (family)/Huddersfield (University) Posts: 2,923 Likes (Received): 18	The trouble is, as I may have said before, is that workplaces with large numbers of parking spaces are generally located outside the city centre, and whilst orbital PT links can only cater for so many needs anyway, Nottingham's are rather poor. These would also need to connect to other services e.g. radial ones to the city, and joining up public transport like this is something we seem incapable of in the UK. Until this situation improves you are never going to make PT an attractive option for employees in these workplaces.

September 15th, 2009, 01:13 PM	#335
*NCT* Not Cwite There Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham Posts: 5,068 Likes (Received): 82	Nottingham also has fairly good park & ride facilities at Queen's Drive and along Line 1 (Admittedly the Racecourse one isn't much of a success IMO). There will be even better facilities once phase two is built.

September 16th, 2009, 03:01 PM	#336
ben77 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 611 Likes (Received): 3	Brilliant news.. We should be discouraging people using cars if we actually want a world to live in in 50-100 years time.. Unfortunately individuals & companies base all of their decisions on the financial cost to them and hopefully this will reduce the number of cars on the road and get people on to public transport... Any backward thinking company that can't see that this is a good move overall for the city is quite welcome to sod off to Leic or Derby.

September 16th, 2009, 03:09 PM	#337
Lears City Look there, look there! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Leicester Posts: 5,850 Likes (Received): 9	Surely if cars didn't run on non-renewable energy sources, then they would still beat public transport all the time. Cars of the future will not run on oil - and they will still need parking spaces. So please do come to Leicester you backward thinking companies...

September 16th, 2009, 03:18 PM	#338
Metrolinkthesecond BANNED Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 11 Likes (Received): 0	Really? 2,000 people per direction on a normal road when people are using cars as their method of transport 'BEATS' trams with a capacity of up to about 20,000 per direction. Sure, the pollution issues surrounding cars MAY be fixed at some point in the long future, however, it is not going to fix the fact that they are incrdibly low capacity and take up a lot of space causing congestion problems. No matter how clean car transport becomes with time, there will be more and more of a requirement for high quality public transport, otherwise we will all simply be sat in traffic jams all day. Good work Nottingham Council - very progressive.

September 16th, 2009, 03:21 PM	#339
Lears City Look there, look there! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Leicester Posts: 5,850 Likes (Received): 9	So does a tram take you from your doorstep to the front door of your workplace? What if you live in Blaby, Leicestershire near Junction 21 of the M1 and work in a part of Nottingham not served by tram?

September 16th, 2009, 05:32 PM	#340
duane Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,410 Likes (Received): 5	Polloution issues won't be sorted for a long time. The oil companies don't want it and they are the ones with the money, to control the media and therefor an election. Did you know alot of oil companies have the patents for parts of electric cars, to make it impossible to replicate. As for public transport, it has got to be faster than normal transport and it will work. Look at how many people use the underground from all backgrounds. England needs to invest in the Maglev train now. With speeds of upto 4000mph, using less power than a conventional train, how can this not be a key investment.