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Old August 16th, 2010, 06:18 PM   #521
potik.potapoff
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With dumbass in power its high as usuall. Its always been there. Regions that didn't get his popular vote got shit money as he became president, my region is one of them. And to tell you the truth some of the projects that were started when Yushchenko was still in power are not frozen once this guy stepped in. My oblast in one of them, he kicked out one of the best Governors that we had ever seem, this guy was in the office before Yushchenko even became a president..so that's 5-6 years, and yes he did great things for economy of the region to boom up. Now because he was from Orange Party, dumbass removed him and put one of his gangsters who is an ex guy from UkrAvtoDor, he had already a case too which proved that he stole money from what has been given to fix country's roads but later dropped because....I'm sure you can guess, judge got some $$$.=reality of justice. Now the question is do we really need someone like that in the office? Good thing he can't touch our major who's from Orange Party as well because that's a totally different level comparing to governor.
It just really sucks, everything is controlled by these mobsters, even police. But we are not the only ones, Moldova got the same problems, over there even worst, and Russians too.
Uhm... yushenko was the worst president Ukraine ever had and probably will ever have. He was a nightmare... he did nothing to stimulize the economy... he didn't integrate with the EU but broke all the economical relations with Russia.

Nothing changed under Yushenkos lead... the corruption only grew... i had to pass the border when Yushenko was president and I had to pay money to the Ukrainian douane otherwise I couln't pass the border.

Yushenko is really the biggest idiot ever... he hadn't made prograss to integrate with the EU, but broke all the relations with Russia and almost led Ukraine to a colapse.
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Old August 16th, 2010, 06:58 PM   #522
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Originally Posted by void0 View Post
Have you ever seen a Russian claiming that roads in Russia are good?
Yes, some of them have problem when you are telling them the truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by potik.potapoff View Post
Uhm... yushenko was the worst president Ukraine ever had and probably will ever have. He was a nightmare... he did nothing to stimulize the economy... he didn't integrate with the EU but broke all the economical relations with Russia.

Nothing changed under Yushenkos lead... the corruption only grew... i had to pass the border when Yushenko was president and I had to pay money to the Ukrainian douane otherwise I couln't pass the border.

Yushenko is really the biggest idiot ever... he hadn't made prograss to integrate with the EU, but broke all the relations with Russia and almost led Ukraine to a colapse.
What does it have in common with ukrainian highways?
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Old August 16th, 2010, 08:11 PM   #523
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to all guys who support Regions or Orange party.


please never write what you think of your opponent politicans, because you would be hurting the other side. if you will be tearing Ukraine apart on Blue and Orange side it will harm your country.

I just simply support Ukraine
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Old August 16th, 2010, 11:13 PM   #524
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^To tell you the truth, you can't trust anyone there...I'm sure Mr.potik.potapoff the smart guy will now porudly say BLUE rules but really its the same fat cats like all of them in the parliament.
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Пам'ятайте, достатньо тільки спитати у росіянина, "Чей Крым?" щоб взнати чи має він ненавість до України чи ні.
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Old August 17th, 2010, 02:29 AM   #525
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What a huge and professional improvement of your infrastructure at the following picture:


Jeez... Ukraine is definitely going to have the best road system in Europe or even in the world! Good job!
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Old August 17th, 2010, 02:38 AM   #526
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^To tell you the truth, you can't trust anyone there...I'm sure Mr.potik.potapoff the smart guy will now porudly say BLUE rules but really its the same fat cats like all of them in the parliament.
I didn't support Yanukovich either... but Yushenko was a disaster.
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Old August 17th, 2010, 02:38 AM   #527
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Well, so maybe I will add some words to the discussion about Ukrainian roads. Unfortunatelly, my general impression is quite disappointing. I certainly digress from the historical reasons of this situation and only objectively asses the situation.
So far, I had been in Ukraine four times, virtually every holidays. The last one was in the last week. It is a really beautifull country with a great potential, beautiful landscapes and even more beautiful girls (), but if it comes about roads, it is a disaster. I tell about western part of the country, I have completely no idea how it looks like in the Eastern Ukraine, which is as I've heard quite richer. Every journey in Ukraine I began with visiting L'viv, crossing the border in Hrebenne/Rava-Ruska. Since I was driving this road the first time in 2006, it has been nothing improved, even worsened. I hope it will be changed until the E2012 because it is the main road conecting Warsaw and L'viv, the two hosting cities of this championship. In the last, year I crossed the border in Medyka/Sheghini (E40 road) and the condition of the road wasn't much better.
Especially I was travelling in Ukraine a lot in the last year, from L'viv through Chernivtsi (very very charming city!), Khotyn, Kamianets-Podilskyi, Ivano-Frankivsk, Rakhiv to land again in L'viv (if you wish to see my photos of this journey, I invite you to my thread /http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...210&highlight=/, unfortunatelly only in Polish, but I think that everyone who want can make use of Google Translate ), so I can say something about your roads. My general impression was that I had seen virtually no newly renovated or built roads, only patched potholes (but also unfortunately a lot of unpatched potholes).
This year, contrary to my previous voyages, I was driving my own car, so I could look even closer at the condition of Ukrainian. I was driving from Rava-Ruska to L'viv (at night during the storm - something really terrible), in L'viv (driving in this city is a nightmare, one can have a impression that if only the tramways could, they would drive on pavements ) and in the village in Bieszczady Mountains near Staryi Sambir. One day I made a journey to Mukachevo, together about 230 km in the one way. Unfortunately, only the E50 road could be called a good, meeting European standards road. The rest were reminding me the second or thrid class roads in Poland. Unfortunatelly, but it wasn't a disaster. The true disaster was a road linking Staryi Sambir and the border with Poland in Krościenko. Ok, I know that this is a second or even third class road and it isn't the most important border crossing. However, riding this road was a real nightmare. I've never seen more holey road. I'd an impression that it has been never renovated because I've seen practically no patches. I regret that I haven't taken any photos but I was then focused on aiming the border crossing not destroing my car.
Please, do not understand me wrong. I really like Ukraine and I find it a very attractive country, but your roads are in a terrible condition. I hope you will manage to do something with this until the E2012 we are hosting together, at least the sections between border with Poland and L'viv, because the rest cities will be the most likely reached by planes.
However, not to say that everything is bad, I have to admit that I really admire your railways. In my opinion, our Polish equivalent could learn a lot from you, because our railways in general, both trains and railwaystations, are in most cases in very poor condition.

Best regards from Poland! And I wish you a stable and wise government which will consequently lead your country to the integration with the EU. I believe that E2012 will be the great chance for our both countries .
Good luck!

Last edited by zakrzemarski; August 17th, 2010 at 02:44 AM.
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Old August 17th, 2010, 02:52 AM   #528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratotroter View Post
eez... Ukraine is definitely going to have the best road system in Europe or even in the world! Good job!
See Polish roads 10-15 years ago. IMO they weren't in a much better condition. Without support from the EU it would be much much worsen than today. Remember that Ukraine is a great country, nearly twice bigger than Poland, was a PART of USSR and that its finances are in a very poor condition.
Please, do not spam on this forum . I see you are a young forumer, so please accept the rule of matter-of-fact discussion /albo wracaj na onet jeśli masz zamiar zaśmiecać to forum takimi tekstami/.

Sorry for OT
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Old August 17th, 2010, 03:08 AM   #529
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Quote:
See Polish roads 10-15 years ago. IMO they weren't in a much better condition.
I would say 30-35 years ago...and I've just expressed my opinion. I hope you will not censor my post like people from ukraine do...
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Old August 17th, 2010, 03:22 AM   #530
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I criticize you only, don't censor. You can express your opinion but in more constructive way, keeping the standards of this forum. Nothing more.

Last edited by zakrzemarski; August 17th, 2010 at 03:30 AM.
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Old August 17th, 2010, 05:23 AM   #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratotroter View Post
Jeez... Ukraine is definitely going to have the best road system in Europe or even in the world! Good job!
You can go and Jeez with your smiles somewhere else instead of saying something positive.
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"Немає в нас бандерівців та москалів, східний і західний. Всі ми - народ України!" - В`ячеслав Чорновіл.
Пам'ятайте, достатньо тільки спитати у росіянина, "Чей Крым?" щоб взнати чи має він ненавість до України чи ні.
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Old August 17th, 2010, 05:43 AM   #532
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zakrzemarski, thanks for your kind lines, I wish the same and we all hope for some nice change for 19 years already. About the Eastern Ukraine roads..its almost no change, like I said in my previous post, at the moment they are fixing city roads in big numbers instead of highways. When ever you go next time, try visiting my city you might like it as well as compare the roads with the cities you visited already. And even make a journey to the other side of Ukraine. Come to Odessa, lots of Ukrainki)))))) Loving your thread about your trip by the way, my favorite pic http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4964/p1120367.jpg I bet that was very surprising right in the center of Lviv
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"Немає в нас бандерівців та москалів, східний і західний. Всі ми - народ України!" - В`ячеслав Чорновіл.
Пам'ятайте, достатньо тільки спитати у росіянина, "Чей Крым?" щоб взнати чи має він ненавість до України чи ні.
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Old August 17th, 2010, 10:00 AM   #533
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zakrzemarski,

your trip was within Zapadnaya Ukraina (West Ukraine) - I guess you were moving only within the part what belonged to Poland before the II World War.

do not be surprised the region is not developed if we talk about the road infrastructure.

I see the situation in this way:

major road infrastructure works were done by Soviet Union, so SU leaders were interested in linking Ukraine (integrate) with other parts of Soviet imperium, not Poland/Romania/Slovakia which suffered from shrinking territory.
there was no need to develop roads towards any border (we know SU was not open country for other nations). that is why you cannot see any mojor roads to the west/south of Lviv (Lwów).

now I was six times in UA (first time in 1996) and I can assure you the situation is far more better than what you can see around Lwów (100 km).
there are decent roads (in Soviet style) but you can see them if you go far from Polish border.

so just to summarize.
we Poles rather visit Western Ukraine to see how our grandfathers land looked like, but we do not go to Central or Estern part. based on what we see in Western part we shape opinions which do not need to be 100% true.
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Old September 17th, 2010, 09:57 PM   #534
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M14 between Kherson and Mykolayiv is being reconstructed by adding second carriageway. Thats how it looks before


and after




Completition of works on this section (about 50 km) is scheduled on next year. Also next year they gonna start works between Mykolayiv and Odessa.
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Old September 17th, 2010, 10:23 PM   #535
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Very nice.

I notice there is a trend to double roads to 2x2, but there doesn't seem to be much progress with a motorway network.

I think UA will continue to build 2x2 roads with intersections, and once intersections become accident-prone, they will start to rebuild them into interchanges on a case-by-case basis. Experience in other parts of Europe learns that the progress of grade-separation on existing 2x2 roads is painfully slow... but probably the best solution right now to improve traffic safety and flow considering the lack of funding in Ukraine for a full motorway.
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Old September 18th, 2010, 03:01 AM   #536
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I think there are several things to consider when widening the roads there

a) the congestion - thus only the routes that are to be expected with high AADT should be widened to 2x2
b) the quality of road - whatever the road traffic, it should be repaired if it is heavily damaged and represents an main connection route
c) the costs of the widening compared to the cost of plain renovation. I would say that the land in rural areas should be astonishingly cheap compared with most european land prices, thus decreasing the costs of building a 2x2 significantly. When no interchanges are made the costs of adding additional two lanes will certainly be less than double when only extensive renovation of 1x1 road is made.

In general I think that the problem doesn't lay in low capacity of the roads (outside the cities) but low quality. In such a huge country doesn't really matter (with current intensities) so much if the road is 2x2 or 1x1 in rural areas. What matters is, whether it is doable road in normal european car on daily bases, whether the trucks dont get stuck in mudd or potholes etc etc.

The population density around 77 per sqkm is not that high to not be for the time being handled by normal roads. The quality question is more important here I think so far. The crucial point in this decision making would be the increase in the costs for widening to 2x2 compared with "only" total reconstruction of the road.
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Old September 18th, 2010, 03:12 AM   #537
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In this sense I can also understand the priority of the cities, since there the traffic is visible and affects more people.

I would only like to point out, that the decission makers should first look not at the road surface, but at the infrastructure that is underground. That means all the engeneering networks (el., gas, waterpipes, sewer, etc. All this infrastructure many times deserved better treatments than it got in the soviet times . If the surface is changed without changing the under part, it will have to be done again and again...Thus more money and wasted time.
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Old September 18th, 2010, 05:26 AM   #538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
In this sense I can also understand the priority of the cities, since there the traffic is visible and affects more people.

I would only like to point out, that the decission makers should first look not at the road surface, but at the infrastructure that is underground. That means all the engeneering networks (el., gas, waterpipes, sewer, etc. All this infrastructure many times deserved better treatments than it got in the soviet times . If the surface is changed without changing the under part, it will have to be done again and again...Thus more money and wasted time.
When a street is heavily rebuilt here in the USA, it is normal for the underground stuff to be redone during the couple of years before the street's surface is rebuilt.

Mike
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Old September 20th, 2010, 02:07 AM   #539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
I think there are several things to consider when widening the roads there

a) the congestion - thus only the routes that are to be expected with high AADT should be widened to 2x2
b) the quality of road - whatever the road traffic, it should be repaired if it is heavily damaged and represents an main connection route
c) the costs of the widening compared to the cost of plain renovation. I would say that the land in rural areas should be astonishingly cheap compared with most european land prices, thus decreasing the costs of building a 2x2 significantly. When no interchanges are made the costs of adding additional two lanes will certainly be less than double when only extensive renovation of 1x1 road is made.

In general I think that the problem doesn't lay in low capacity of the roads (outside the cities) but low quality. In such a huge country doesn't really matter (with current intensities) so much if the road is 2x2 or 1x1 in rural areas. What matters is, whether it is doable road in normal european car on daily bases, whether the trucks dont get stuck in mudd or potholes etc etc.

The population density around 77 per sqkm is not that high to not be for the time being handled by normal roads. The quality question is more important here I think so far. The crucial point in this decision making would be the increase in the costs for widening to 2x2 compared with "only" total reconstruction of the road.
Yeah, you are totally right. As for that particular section i have posted it is said to be congested esspecially in summer time as it is way from Kyiv to Crimea. And cost of widening it is only 14 mln UAH per km which is $1.77 mln
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Old September 27th, 2010, 04:21 PM   #540
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Some minor road near Ivano Frankove:

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Obwód lwowski, droga T1425 odcinek Żółkiew - Krechów - Iwano-Frankowe (d. Janów) przecinająca wał Roztocza. 30 km męki przebyte we czwartek 23 września.
Wrzucam dla ewentualnego uratowania czyjegoś zawieszenia.


Masakryczny wyjazd z Żółkwi.



Między Żółkwią a Glińskiem jest w miarę nieźle.



Między Glińskiem a Krechowem też ujdzie w tłumie.



Krechów (po prawej drogowskaz do klasztoru bazylianów).



Za Krechowem zaczyna się masakra.







Wyjątki mają po góra 200-300 metrów, wystarczy żeby dać nadzieję, za mało żeby się rozpędzić (zwłaszcza autokarem).









Dopiero ostatni fragment przed Iwano-Frankowe jest nowy.
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