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Old November 2nd, 2010, 01:41 AM   #561
VelesHomais
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From Ukrainian forum, near Rivne

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Мои фото зделаны 31.10.2010
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Old November 13th, 2010, 02:18 AM   #562
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Interchange on M6 Zhytomyr bypass (to the West of the city)
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Ивановская развязка
М-06 Киев-Чоп
152 км

























Trip from Kharkiv to Dnipropetrovsk timelapse
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Давно меня тут на форуме не было.

Highway M-18 Kharkiv - Dnipropetrovsk
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Old November 13th, 2010, 11:21 AM   #563
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how long is this route ?
is it the whole route Kiev - Chop ?
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Old November 13th, 2010, 11:26 AM   #564
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If I am correct;

Chop - L'viv has been renovated, but remains single carriageway (1x2 or 2+1 lanes)
L'viv - Kiev has been renovated and widened to 4 lanes, including some (but not all) grade-separation.
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Old November 13th, 2010, 09:08 PM   #565
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Originally Posted by and802 View Post
how long is this route ?
228 km
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Old November 13th, 2010, 09:47 PM   #566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
If I am correct;

Chop - L'viv has been renovated, but remains single carriageway (1x2 or 2+1 lanes)
L'viv - Kiev has been renovated and widened to 4 lanes, including some (but not all) grade-separation.
Not quite true.

L'viv-Rivne (200 km) has some 2x2 stretches, but mostly 2x1 and even 1x1. It has been renovated. In the future, once Krakovets-Lviv motorway is constructed, it is supposed to be extended to Brody, parallel to the current E-40, but avoiding populated areas.

Rivne-Zhytomyr (including Rivne bypass), 200 km - has just been completed. It's 2x2, but unfortunately has in-grade crossings. What's worth- it has pedestrial crossings. There have been talks that those will all be replaced with overpasses soom, but no certainty there.

Zhytomyr-Kyiv (150 km) : this is currently 2x2 expressways, of a rather mediocre quality. It will be upgraded till 2012. There is EBRD funding specifically allocated for this. Expected start of work- beginning 2011. It is not clear if it will be converted to real motorway. That would be a natural move. Especially problematic segment is first 20-30 km near Kyiv, where traffic is horrible, and the road definitely needs to be widen.
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Old November 13th, 2010, 11:12 PM   #567
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1. how about a Krakovets-Lviv motorway ?

do you know guys approximate start date (and preferably finish date ) ?

I mean realistic dates.

2. what is the status of a Rava Ruska - Lviv road (M09) ? is it in decent condition with village bypassses, two level road crossing, etc ?
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Old November 13th, 2010, 11:18 PM   #568
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Construction of the Krakovets - L'viv motorway started on October 28th, 2010. It is to be opened in May 2012.

From what I've seen, M09 is in a disastrous condition, much worse than the other M-roads in Ukraine. Full of potholes.
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Old November 14th, 2010, 12:02 AM   #569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post


Construction of the Krakovets - L'viv motorway started on October 28th, 2010. It is to be opened in May 2012.

From what I've seen, M09 is in a disastrous condition, much worse than the other M-roads in Ukraine. Full of potholes.
M09:

so nothing has got changed for 10 years (at least last time I was driving it)
I wonder whether there are some plans to rehabilate/reconctruct/improve it.
looks like both sides are not very interested to improve Warsaw-Lviv route.


Krakovets - L'viv motorway:
right I know that.
I was just wondering whether the delivery date is realistic (I already commented the plans). I thought by know there is more info about it.
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Old November 14th, 2010, 12:03 AM   #570
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Well, if they proceed at good speed and there are no delays, May 2012 sounds doable.
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Old November 14th, 2010, 12:27 AM   #571
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what do you think:

is a Warsaw-Lviv route important ?

let me bring a Polish-German example.
there is a motorway between Wroclaw and Berlin

btw: I understand Warsaw-Lviv belongs to no important corridor (if any)
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Old November 14th, 2010, 12:40 AM   #572
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Back in the late 90's / early 2000's you had these stories about bandits and mafia in northwestern Ukraine, especially M07 was prone to robbings and theft. Some people even recommended to carry firearms on your truck. I'm not sure how exaggerated these stories are, but where there's smoke, there's fire. Back in those days, transit traffic from Warszawa to Kyiv was better off taking the route via L'viv. Nowadways the DK/S17/M09 has only a secondary E-route number: E372.

I do believe this route has potential, especially because it can serve as a through route from Poland to Romania and the Black Sea region. No visa is needed these days, but border controls are a major problem because it usually takes a few hours to cross the PL/UA border, not to mention for truck traffic. I sincerely hope we can welcome Ukraine into the European Union and Schengen some day, when the circumstances are correct.
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Old November 14th, 2010, 12:50 AM   #573
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I think it could somehow speed up tha process (I mean Ukrainian EU membership) if the routes with the closest Eu neighbours would be modern and maintained in very good conditions. not to mention countless hours at borders.
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Old November 14th, 2010, 02:36 AM   #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
Krakovets - L'viv motorway:
right I know that.
I was just wondering whether the delivery date is realistic (I already commented the plans). I thought by know there is more info about it.
Life will show. Now we can't even acknowledge whether the real work has started.

As for M9. All the M-roads leading from Lviv to polish border shuold be trimmed by Euro 2012. And according to reports in ukrainian press works on M11 has started a mounth ago.
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Old November 14th, 2010, 02:50 AM   #575
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EU membership for Ukraine is apparently unlikely because it's "too big" (odd, given active plans for more populous Turkey to join. Or, at least the illusion of showing willingness for Turkey joining). Brought to you by the same statement that said Moldova is "too poor" and Belarus "too scary".

Transport links with closest EU neighbours won't help much, they'll want you in anyway - it's France you'll have to woo, as they won't want the CAP (set up as a way for them to get lots of money back off the EU) watered down more, and don't think much of enlargement in general, let alone a country with a large population watering down their votes in the Brussels/Strasbourg talking shop.
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Old November 14th, 2010, 06:24 AM   #576
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As to EU membership- given the current financial state of Europe, it's an easy guess that the process will stop after Balcans get in.

Ukraine, Turkey and the rest will be abuffer zone for a very long time.

___________

As to Krakovets-Lviv, c'mon' it's just 80 km, with project ready and land secured, etc. And only 3 (or 4?) interchanges. Don't see why not to build it by May 2012. Possibly, only 50km leading to Lviv will be ready, with nothern part of Lviv ring road delayed beyong Euro. But I doubt this.

What worries me much more, out af all Euro-2012 road projects in Ukraine, is Lubny-Kharkiv part of E-40. It has been pomised by the government that it will be completed, but there is no firm contracts so far, no details. An it's about 250 km, of mostly 2 lane road which has to be upgraded to at least 2x2 expressway.
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Old November 14th, 2010, 11:41 AM   #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orland View Post
Now we can't even acknowledge whether the real work has started.
I bet these trucks were not there only to show off






















Quote:
Originally Posted by orland View Post
And according to reports in ukrainian press works on M11 has started a mounth ago.
As for mid October, the whole road between L'viv and Ivano-Frankove was already milled, a Polish forumer reports.
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Old November 14th, 2010, 12:13 PM   #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
EU membership for Ukraine is apparently unlikely because it's "too big" (odd, given active plans for more populous Turkey to join. Or, at least the illusion of showing willingness for Turkey joining). Brought to you by the same statement that said Moldova is "too poor" and Belarus "too scary".

Transport links with closest EU neighbours won't help much, they'll want you in anyway - it's France you'll have to woo, as they won't want the CAP (set up as a way for them to get lots of money back off the EU) watered down more, and don't think much of enlargement in general, let alone a country with a large population watering down their votes in the Brussels/Strasbourg talking shop.
I do not agree.

Turkey is not a good example:
Turkish government has been expressing for a long time its willingness to access EU structures, while the message from Ukrainian government is not clear.

I believe if we have a modern road infrastructure between two nations would help a lot (specially between Eu nation and EU-accessing nation).
more Ukrainians would have a chance to travel to EU and it would be easier to convince them to join EU (then Ukrainian government would be more willing to say "yes")
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Old November 14th, 2010, 05:23 PM   #579
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Originally Posted by and802 View Post
I do not agree.

Turkey is not a good example:
Turkish government has been expressing for a long time its willingness to access EU structures, while the message from Ukrainian government is not clear.

I believe if we have a modern road infrastructure between two nations would help a lot (specially between Eu nation and EU-accessing nation).
more Ukrainians would have a chance to travel to EU and it would be easier to convince them to join EU (then Ukrainian government would be more willing to say "yes")
Are you kidding? All Ukrainian governments over past 15 years literally begged eu at least for a candidate status. At present, both public and polititians in Ukraine are growing increasingly eurosceptical.
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Old November 14th, 2010, 07:53 PM   #580
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Originally Posted by Ulyssis View Post
Are you kidding? All Ukrainian governments over past 15 years literally begged eu at least for a candidate status. At present, both public and polititians in Ukraine are growing increasingly eurosceptical.
no I am not,

this is how I find the situation (although I might be wrong).

you see - I am not an expert of international diplomacy, but my understading is: Turkey is very active and forcing/lobbing its needs, while Ukrainian government is rather step backed - I could not remember the time in the past Ukraine was very interested in EU. of course except official visits of EU memebers where they expressed it loudly, but no real steps were undertaken.
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