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Old November 14th, 2010, 11:00 PM   #581
Ulyssis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
no I am not,

this is how I find the situation (although I might be wrong).

you see - I am not an expert of international diplomacy, but my understading is: Turkey is very active and forcing/lobbing its needs, while Ukrainian government is rather step backed - I could not remember the time in the past Ukraine was very interested in EU. of course except official visits of EU memebers where they expressed it loudly, but no real steps were undertaken.
What would you call "real steps"???

Ukraine has been repeatedly discouraged from applying for EU membership.
Each EU-UA summit in the time of Yushenko had the same pattern: there was essentially a fight for any word in any single declaration, the sole obvject of which was that eurobureaucrats wanted to avoid any commitment. Part of the reason being "expansion fatigue".

Let me remind you that Central Europe has got access to Western market almost immediately after the polytical criterion was satisfied, well before any of serious institutional reforms were completed. Same holds for Romania and Bulgaria, in which case eurobureaucrats did not bother with their readiness at all. Ah, did I mention Russia? Europe is genetically so afraid of it - it will not make any sirious move without consulting Kremlin.

Guess what? Since mid-nineties the global situation had seriously changed. European market may be big, but it's stagnant and oversaturated. Emerging markets are engines of growth these days. Asd a result, ukrainian business has much less insentives for implementation of measures that will actually decrease their competitive advantages outside Europe.

All these arguments of course don't rule out some sort of better integration into Common European Area. For instance, if/when visa free travel and free trade agreement are implemented, the border situation may improve.
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Old November 15th, 2010, 10:04 AM   #582
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as I said before I may be wrong with my evaluation:

Ukraine had got no chance to talk seriously about close EU cooperation before orange movement (until Jan 2005) - issues with democracy. so we have been measuring access efforts for 5 years

the steps which came to my mind:

- changing law to be more compliant with EU regulations
- changing the way business is done (corruption)

probably there are much more than those two.

anyway the EU access for 44-milion nation is not a kind of lottery - "bad luck" does not exist. this is more less what I understood from your post: you try hard, but you get nothing.

and if we see no progress than it probably means:

the changes require a lot of time
the changes are not minor scaled
your country promotion does not work

and one condition more (cruel turth):
almost everdyday each Ukrainian should prove for himself/herself he is a Europe worthy man - unfortunately this condition is not fullified by my nation either.
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Old November 15th, 2010, 12:15 PM   #583
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It will happen, if that's what you want. It will just take a long time, as neither Ukraine nor the EU is ready yet. The EU needs to consolidate new member states first, and Ukraine has a lot of things to get better at. You will probably have to choose someday between east (Russia) and west (EU). If you choose west, Russia will be angry and the EU in its current state is too weak to be a deterrence against them doing anything stupid. So, a lot of things will have to change first.
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Old November 15th, 2010, 02:38 PM   #584
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The EU needs to consolidate new member states first,
And what do you mean by that? Well, I am not suprised that much, that perhaps you think that only some countries in the EU are in fact EU, others need to be consolidated right by them... And then again, only some countries are European and some others not... etc. etc.

The EU doens't have to and in fact shouldnt consolidate no one, but itself.

One point is, that Ukraine would be far to big and far too populous for some countries to swollow. The club leaders don't want to lose their dominance anyway.

Another point is, that there can be talking about promoting social well being and solidarity, promoting the economical growth etc. etc. but when it comes to deeds, its mainly about promoting your own growth and profits. There are currently really no reasons not to agree on the free trade between EU and Ukraine. However there is very little political will in the EU.

The whole thing has surely many more aspects and this place is not to put them all on table. But anyway currently in the EU there is very little vision and some drive for bigger achievements, there is merely more figth for own profits of the respective members. There is also huge democratic deficit in the decision making process of the EU, which is furthermore promoted by the national politicians, since they profit from it the most.
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Old November 15th, 2010, 02:50 PM   #585
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And about the Russia x West question. I feel and hear this issue so often and allways with such an idiotic conclusions that it really makes me wonder. Is it so hard to go down to the facts, or are the people so easy to manipulate?

First of all. THere is and will be an West x Russia conflict only when we talk about it, when we promote it and when we support it. Its true that there certainly was conflict over the history. The problem might be in the question, who started the conflict?

The problem is that the "west" saw, and I reckon still sees, as a huge collonial space to be acquired. Given major european conflicts show that the agression was directed from west to the east, that means from "west" towards Russia, yet we see in the "west" fear from the Russia throughout the history. Either is this fear implanted or it is more a bad conscience than anything else.
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Old November 15th, 2010, 06:09 PM   #586
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There are currently really no reasons not to agree on the free trade between EU and Ukraine. However there is very little political will in the EU.
I totally agree that the Ukraine should have free trade with the EU. The reason that there is very little political will (other than the size issue) is that the EU bigwigs don't like halfway houses - they want as much immersion (and thus power) as possible for countries in Europe and don't want their love of ever-closer political union undermined by showing that countries can do just as well (in fact, better) with free trade agreements without all the political stuff.

There's lots of vision in the EU, hence they are trying to expand they budget when all the member states are making cuts. This vision doesn't involve the Ukraine (which you should be thankful for - I wouldn't wish the EU's vision on anyone!). It barely involves Turkey, though they lead them on. It doesn't involve free trade, or Turkey and the Ukraine would have got that if they asked, and there'd be more free trade with non-European countries. It's about creating a superstate.
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Old November 15th, 2010, 06:52 PM   #587
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Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
I totally agree that the Ukraine should have free trade with the EU. The reason that there is very little political will (other than the size issue) is that the EU bigwigs don't like halfway houses - they want as much immersion (and thus power) as possible for countries in Europe and don't want their love of ever-closer political union undermined by showing that countries can do just as well (in fact, better) with free trade agreements without all the political stuff.

There's lots of vision in the EU, hence they are trying to expand they budget when all the member states are making cuts. This vision doesn't involve the Ukraine (which you should be thankful for - I wouldn't wish the EU's vision on anyone!). It barely involves Turkey, though they lead them on. It doesn't involve free trade, or Turkey and the Ukraine would have got that if they asked, and there'd be more free trade with non-European countries. It's about creating a superstate.


Well, actually, to be fair: over the past months, the general dynamics at EU-UA talks was as following. EU was promoting free trade agreement, and Ukrainian side was unhappy with the conditions, including all kind of quotas for agricultural products, schedule of implementation of envirtonmental regulations etc.
At the same time, Ukraine was pressing on visa free travel, and EU was kinda yielding but everything was going reeeeeal slow.
So, there is quite a bit of ambivalence on both sides. In the past, Ukrainian governmanet was willing to yield on number of issues just to keep the process going. The new government is considerably more pragmatic.
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Old November 15th, 2010, 09:05 PM   #588
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No politics, please!
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Old November 19th, 2010, 09:52 PM   #589
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Two pictures of the "Avtoban" signage on M18 (Kharkov - Dnepropetrovsk)



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Old November 19th, 2010, 11:19 PM   #590
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Nice! And what's the empty green rectangle for? E105?
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Old November 20th, 2010, 12:01 AM   #591
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Possibly, but another option is to introduce a separate motorway numbering system in addition to the existing 5 numbering systems already in operation in Ukraine.

Right now they have;

E - European Route
M - Magistral
H - National
P - Regional
T - Territorial (I think)
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Old November 20th, 2010, 12:03 AM   #592
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Regierung stellt Bau einer weiteren langen Autobahn in Aussicht

Neue 1000-kilometerlange Verkehrsader soll ukrainische Hauptstadt mit der Grenzstadt Kertsch auf der Krim verbinden.

Das Ministerkabinett der Ukraine plant Bau einer weiteren langen Autobahn vom Norden nach Süden, die die ukrainische Hauptstadt Kiew mit der Grenzstadt Kertsch auf der Krim verbinden wird. Die Länge der neuen Verkehrsader Kiew-Kirowohrad-Herson-Symferopol-Kertsch soll fast 1030 km ausmachen, berichtet die Nachrichtenagentur UNIAN unter Bezug auf Mitteilung des Regionalregierungschefs von Herson, Mykola Kostjak. Dem Ressortleiter zufolge, habe der Premierminister der Ukraine, Mykola Asarow, bereits Dutzende Anweisungen an betroffene Regionalregierungen erteilt, um benötigte Vorarbeit zu leisten. Laut vorläufigen Angaben soll sich die Veranschlagung der Bauarbeiten, die voraussichtlich 3 bzw. 4 Jahre dauern werden, auf ca. 7 Mrd. US-Dollar belaufen. Schon jetzt zeigen sich viele chinesische Gesellschaften als bereitwillig, diese Gelder in Form eines Kredits bereitzustellen, so Kostjak.
http://www.nrcu.gov.ua/index.php?id=475&listid=133439

Ukraine is planning a 1.030 kilometer long motorway from Kyiv via Kirovohrad, Cherson and Simferopol to Kerch (Crimea peninsula). It will cost $ 7 billion and will possibly be financed by China.
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Old December 8th, 2010, 10:17 PM   #593
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Hi guys, I'm planning to visit Ukraine in the near future - skiing at Bukovel and possibly visiting Lvov which I heard is a very beautiful city. However, I'm quite concerned regarding the safety on Ukrainian roads - I mean I prefer coming back still with my own car not on foot . Does anybody have any details regarding this?
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Old December 8th, 2010, 10:43 PM   #594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurocopter View Post
Hi guys, I'm planning to visit Ukraine in the near future - skiing at Bukovel and possibly visiting Lvov which I heard is a very beautiful city. However, I'm quite concerned regarding the safety on Ukrainian roads - I mean I prefer coming back still with my own car not on foot . Does anybody have any details regarding this?
I have never been there but I heard it is better to hire a car.

Btw, I am so looking forward to go there one day.

Last edited by seem; December 31st, 2010 at 12:40 AM. Reason: car not care :D
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Old December 8th, 2010, 11:01 PM   #595
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I think the most annoying thing will be corrupt policemen. I've read some bad stories about it, though the worst seems to be in eastern Ukraine.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 12:02 AM   #596
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I think the most annoying thing will be corrupt policemen. I've read some bad stories about it, though the worst seems to be in eastern Ukraine.
Well, I'm interested in the Western part, have you got any knowledge regarding criminality levels in the area? Thanks!
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Old December 9th, 2010, 12:22 AM   #597
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Well, I'm interested in the Western part, have you got any knowledge regarding criminality levels in the area? Thanks!
I have been in Ukraine many times, although last time it was 2002

the first thing:
if you keep calm you are as safe as in any other European country.

I would say the problem is that you can meet very wide scope of people:
from very, very pleasant up to very aggresive (for example: your foreign plates).

this is why Ukraine has got unclear opinion in Europe. some say: very, very friendly, others: do not go there.

so it is not like that you go - for example - Germany and you expect no problems at all, but on the other hand nobody would offer you a dinner or his bedroom for free, just because you look like you need it.

although I do recommend to go to Ukraine, think twice what kind of skiing you are about to do, 'cause the ski infrastructure will not be your friend.

general rule: any government officer takes money. driving there I used to bribe 4-5 policemen a day. so have a change in your pocket.
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Old December 31st, 2010, 12:30 AM   #598
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Ski infrastructure in Bukovel will not be your friend?

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q...w=1280&bih=701

http://photo.bukovel.com/index.php

http://www.bukovel.com

http://www1.bukovel.com/en
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Old February 4th, 2011, 01:00 PM   #599
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Driving in Ukraine

Actually I think there are some pretty huge misconceptions about driving here in Ukraine. I have lived here now for some time and been visiting for the last 10 years. Roads are steadily being improved and the police are nowhere nearly as bad as they were.

As a rule I would say it is possible to avoid being stopped entirely if you rigidly stick to the speed limits - bearing in mind that the police cannot fine you if you are within 20km/h of the signposted limit. They can only issue a warning. Even if you are stopped randomly they are usually very courteous to foreigners. If they do want a bribe then be aware that inflation has taken place and they are now very high!

The roads are steadily improving and making it easier and more pleasurable to drive. But this is really limited to the main roads so far. The roads closest to all the border crossings are also amongst the worst in the country.

One big problem here are the illegal uninsured drivers. Many of the drivers also never took a test but just bought a licence - hence the very bad, very fast driving often seen. Generally, classic defensive is advisable and always assume that another driver is going to do something stupid - because they often will.

The border crossings are still organized chaos and can be very slow. Crossing into Ukraine is straightforward and can happen in 30 minutes if lucky (including PL/SK/RO Customs). Getting out again can take many hours depending on the day/ time of day / actual crossing. It is worth trying to find up-to-date statistics for your chosen crossing for the best time to cross.

Try and get your green card to cover UA before leaving home, and preferably fully comprehensive bearing in mind the many uninsured drivers here. You will be asked for it at the border but not usually by the police. If you don't have one then they will make you buy one and only third party is available, although very cheap. I know that in the UK it is almost impossible to get a green card to cover UA however so sometimes you have no options.

I don't think there is much difference these days between East and West Ukraine traffic police. But if you drive a big expensive car then you will be more noticeable even if driving normally. Small cars are very seldom stopped - and I speak from personal experience, having driven a Toyota Land Cruiser and Yaris here. Foreign numberplates also don't seem to make much difference in my experience.

It is certainly worth visiting Ukraine and it is still much cheaper here than in the EU. If you are lucky enough to have LPG it is even better and is widely available.
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Old April 22nd, 2011, 12:00 AM   #600
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What's the status of the Vinnitsia - Kyiv motorway?

http://www.ukravtodor.gov.ua/clients..._Keiv_E_A4.pdf
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