Will Grosvenor deliver on it's promises - will L1 be a success?

[Awayo]

Peacocks have no bollocks. Birds don't apparently.

It's getting silly now. That list is so appalling it is now just funny. I for one have gone beyond being angry or disappointed. I almost want it to carry on getting yet more unbelievably dreadful and so least I can have a wry and bitter cackle about it.

[Wirral]

I have a feeling that close to the time of the opening there will be a press conference announcing bigger names to Liverpool1, just to keep everyone guessing just like whether Paul McCartney was going to appear during Capital of Culture. I hope so anyway . . . .

[Awayo]

Well, they kept quiet about Peacocks until it appeared on the list this week anyhow.

[JUXTAPOL]

what do peacocks sell...!

[Awayo]

They've got a branch in Park Road in the Dingle already if you want to find out.

Clothes, very cheap ones, Matalan is upscale compared to them. You would barely expect to find them in St Johns not to mind a shopping development that is meant to catapult Liverpool into another league for retail.

[Martin S]

Just look at the store list on their website. They already have a Liverpool City Centre site in Williamson Street (another Grosvenor relocation job ) and sites across the country in many diverse locations including 'up market' places like Fulham, Hoxton and East Grinstead and also in the Lakeside shopping centre in Thurrock and the Arndale Centre in Manchester.

Based on that, I can't see that their opening a store in L1 is something to get upset about.

[Awayo]

Selective stuff, Martin. Here's just their "North West" list.

ACCRINGTON
ARNDALE CENTRE, MANCHESTER
ASHTON IN MAKERFIELD
ASHTON UNDER LYNE
BELLE VALE
BIRKENHEAD
BOLTON
BOOTLE
CHEETHAM HILL
CHORLEY
DROYLSDEN
ECCLES
FLEETWOOD
HUYTON
KIRKBY
LEIGH
LIVERPOOL
LIVERPPOOL
MIDDLETON
MORECAMBE
OLD SWAN
OLDHAM
POULTON LE FYLDE
ROCHDALE
SALE
SALFORD
SKELMERSDALE
SOUTHPORT
ST HELENS
STOCKPORT
STRETFORD
SWINTON
WALKDEN
WYTHENSHAWE

I think that we get the picture.

And yes Martin is correct. Peacocks are already in Liverpool city centre.

[Chris B]

Originally Posted by Awayo

BELLE VALE
BIRKENHEAD
HUYTON
LIVERPOOL
LIVERPPOOL
OLD SWAN

[Puts on Devil's Advocate hat]

I know it's a re-location and we all would have preferred a new name, but can't we take comfort in the fact that it's a vote of confidence in our city from a large national company? On the list above are all the store Peacocks have just within Liverpool (or just outside). And that's before we get to the other stores they have on Merseyside like Bootle, Southport, and Kirkby. If they didn't think Liverpool was worth bothering with they wouldn't have as many stores, nor would they be investing money to move to bigger premises in the city centre. I'm not being naive here, I would have loved to have clicked this thread and seen a brand new name coming to the city. But I'm not going to get bent out of shape if an existing name wants to show confidence and invest in our city either.

[Takes off Devil's Advocate hat, puts on flame-retardant suit]

[Martin S]

Originally Posted by Awayo

Selective stuff, Martin. Here's just their "North West" list.

ACCRINGTON
ARNDALE CENTRE, MANCHESTER
ASHTON IN MAKERFIELD
ASHTON UNDER LYNE
BELLE VALE
BIRKENHEAD
BOLTON
BOOTLE
CHEETHAM HILL
CHORLEY
DROYLSDEN
ECCLES
FLEETWOOD
HUYTON
KIRKBY
LEIGH
LIVERPOOL
LIVERPPOOL
MIDDLETON
MORECAMBE
OLD SWAN
OLDHAM
POULTON LE FYLDE
ROCHDALE
SALE
SALFORD
SKELMERSDALE
SOUTHPORT
ST HELENS
STOCKPORT
STRETFORD
SWINTON
WALKDEN
WYTHENSHAWE

I think that we get the picture.

And yes Martin is correct. Peacocks are already in Liverpool city centre.

Awayo, I deliberately selected the up market locations to counter your selection of Dingle as typical of the areas they trade in.

The store seems to be pretty ubiquitous and therefore it should come as no surprise that they want to trade in Liverpool One.

I would doubt that they would want two city centre stores and so I assume Williamson Street will close. To justify their relocation, they will need to make a fair bit more money in L1 than they do at present as I assume that rents will be higher.

To make more money, they will need to attract more customers or more wealthy customers. Therefore, the relocation of Peacocks to L1 is a nett gain to the city as it will mean more money being spent in the central area.

[jets9]

Why are people wilfully ignoring the hard facts........Grosvenor have 150 shops to fill(or is it 200) in a gimormous retail development which on its own is bigger than the great majority of town centres in Britain. The 1st phase around Paradise Street/underground car park, is very much designed as high street Britain(except of course it is designed as something rather exciting, attractive/unique). Meanwhile work continues on what we'll call the second phase around Peters Lane/Hanover Street, to be completed 6 months to a year after Paradise street, where there is a whole slew of shops particularly in two arcades. Peacocks will not be going there, where Grosvenor are obviously going to be marketing for more upmarket stores. So far the lettings are for 'high street britain' and as far as I know, not one announcement for Peters Lane/Hanover street yet(except for the periperal letting to Bath Store).

So far it all makes sense to me and except for minor gripes, I see or hear nothing which is alarming or unusual. Just subtract the number of firm announcements from the maximum total number of units available and hey presto, there are a lot more to come.

[boychild]

Originally Posted by jets9

Why are people wilfully ignoring the hard facts........Grosvenor have 150 shops to fill(or is it 200) in a gimormous retail development which on its own is bigger than the great majority of town centres in Britain. The 1st phase around Paradise Street/underground car park, is very much designed as high street Britain(except of course it is designed as something rather exciting, attractive/unique). Meanwhile work continues on what we'll call the second phase around Peters Lane/Hanover Street, to be completed 6 months to a year after Paradise street, where there is a whole slew of shops particularly in two arcades. Peacocks will not be going there, where Grosvenor are obviously going to be marketing for more upmarket stores. So far the lettings are for 'high street britain' and as far as I know, not one announcement for Peters Lane/Hanover street yet(except for the periperal letting to Bath Store).

So far it all makes sense to me and except for minor gripes, I see or hear nothing which is alarming or unusual. Just subtract the number of firm announcements from the maximum total number of units available and hey presto, there are a lot more to come.

Agree totally.

Also, although not a breathtaking aquisition for the scheme, If anyone has actually sen any of the other shops Peacocks have - the arndale and Fulham in particular being the ones I have seen. They sell using a different concept and are women's fashion shops more like top shop that cater for younger buyers rather than the older buyer catered for in their general stores like old swan and williamson street. The new concept stores are fitted out entirely differently and sell a different range of clothes and share only the name with the other stores. Im sure that if Grovsenor hadn't signed them for the 'high street' part of the development that someone would have seen one of these concept stores and posted on here their disgust that Grosvenor 'havn't even signed Peacoks new fashion concept store to the high street area of the scheme, they are shit' etc etc

[T0M]

Originally Posted by boychild

I'm sure that if Grovsenor hadn't signed them for the 'high street' part of the development that someone would have seen one of these concept stores and posted on here their disgust that Grosvenor 'havn't even signed Peacoks new fashion concept store to the high street area of the scheme, they are shit' etc etc

Nail on head. Some people are stuck in a damned if you do, damned if you don't cycle - where if Grosvenor fail to attract the most basic names to the city they're accused of failing because 'even **** (insert small scale provisional town here) have got one' and if they do secure someone like Peacocks they get accused of failing because 'even **** (insert small scale provisional town here) have got one'. It's all a matter of perspective at this stage and it's clearly possible to see negative, or positive, aspects to every new announcement.

[Awayo]

Oh, for pity's sake, Grosvenor is getting no criticism for not signing up ultra shit brands like Peacocks. Yeah, there's me demanding even more shit shops all the time - "Where's the Matalan; what's Cromwell's Madhouse not doing on the list?" Bollocks.

We are pissed off about the fact that the entire scheme is filling with total dross that is already present in the city and that every single half decent new name that Grosvenor have promised has not turned up. Grosvenor know this - why, after all, are they promising good shops? Shite like Peacocks - not even high street btw, this is lower level St John's/Bootle New Strand territory - never gets talked about by Grosvenor but these are the sorts of shops that are being signed.

Liverpool has shit shops, plenty of then. No more shit shops please. It needs good shops. People don't shop in Liverpool now because the shops are shit. Can we have some good shops please Grosvenor?

[bustcapl]

what half decent names did grovesnor ever promise by the way.... any assuptions that have been made have been fuelled by local press and your own fanciful wishes.... ii have to be honest Awayo your posts are really getting a bit tedious.... if i didnt know better i would swear you had a share in some shops on Church Street or something.... the time to judge this is not 9 months before its due to open but a year after it has opened when we can get an up to date picture of the new liverpool retail mix!!!

[Awayo]

Two new upmarket department stores. Urban Outfitters. American Apparel. Apple. Office. A smaller upmarket funky foreign anchor. "Many new stores not already trading in the city". An upmarket market-style food hall.

There were no promises of the appalling sub-St Johns offer they have signed up - will people stop calling this "High Street"? It isn't. It is worse than that.

[Adam(KOS)]

Originally Posted by Awayo

Liverpool has shit shops, plenty of then. No more shit shops please. It needs good shops. People don't shop in Liverpool now because the shops are shit. Can we have some good shops please Grosvenor?

A lot of people don't shop in Liverpool because it's a pain in the arras parking here and because of pillocks in the local media publicly moaning about the traffic problems while at the same time pointing out ( Inadvertently promoting ) Cheshire Oaks and the Trafford center as, a / easy to get to and b/ free parking.

It will be interesting to see how many stores / shops are 'bought' in by rate rent / concessions as with a certain complex opened here last year and the same with a complex opened in Manchester.

[kat2]

I love shoppink in Liverpool, so cheap, why spend silly money on high end names, fashion changes so quickly anyway.
Dont we have the met quater for some of those silly no body can afford names? bit like harrods plastic bags at nearly a tenner each!! *sheesh*
I love Liverpools cheap is sheek shops.
kat

[bustcapl]

Judge it when its open Awayo! Either that or take the updated tennats list off your home page i dont think its doing the blood pressure much good!

[Awayo]

Originally Posted by Adam(KOS)

A lot of people don't shop in Liverpool because it's a pain in the arras parking here and because of pillocks in the local media publicly moaning about the traffic problems while at the same time pointing out ( Inadvertently promoting ) Cheshire Oaks and the Trafford center as, a / easy to get to and b/ free parking.

Doesn't Liverpool One result in a net loss of parking in the city centre? The carparks being a part of it having less capacity than the large areas of wasteland it replaces, but which as used as surface car parking space.

Of course, a lot of the transport planning for this project was based on the tram. Maybe that's why the Liverpool One shops were so appalling, they expected the entire customer base to come in from Kirkby each day and the targetted the shops that provide Kirkby's scintillating shopping offer in order to compete with Kirkby town centre.

I know that I am only guessing here.

All I can explain it by is that Grosvenor's aim is not to restablish Liverpool as a major regional shopping centre that would stop people going to places like Manchester and the Trafford Centre (places with really good shops) but to replace with existing city centre and get poor, inner city people who would otherwise shops more often in the New Strand, the Pyramids or whatever the hell is out in Old Swan to shop in town.

[Kenrick]

Originally Posted by Awayo

Oh, for pity's sake, Grosvenor is getting no criticism for not signing up ultra shit brands like Peacocks. Yeah, there's me demanding even more shit shops all the time - "Where's the Matalan; what's Cromwell's Madhouse not doing on the list?" Bollocks.

We are pissed off about the fact that the entire scheme is filling with total dross that is already present in the city and that every single half decent new name that Grosvenor have promised has not turned up. Grosvenor know this - why, after all, are they promising good shops? Shite like Peacocks - not even high street btw, this is lower level St John's/Bootle New Strand territory - never gets talked about by Grosvenor but these are the sorts of shops that are being signed.

Liverpool has shit shops, plenty of then. No more shit shops please. It needs good shops. People don't shop in Liverpool now because the shops are shit. Can we have some good shops please Grosvenor?

I posted this Grosvenor contact (below) here a week or two ago but since this debate seems to have gone full circle - again - it's probably worth posting up again. Why not send an email/call her to express the anger/digust/fears you've expressed on here?

For an update on the Liverpool One line-up, either email corinne.dourado@grosvenor.com or call on 020 7312 6115.