#COMPLETED: THE TORCH, 84F Res, 338m (Dubai Marina)

[scoobudubai]

Originally Posted by shaffar

Yes, it has. They told me that the car parking space is included in the over-all size. I will see if MANUs RERA rule thing should affect my claim against SG.
My case against them is coming to a boil now. More news will ensue.

Very interesting please keep us posted

In our case the 'car parking space' was not included in the actual cost figures, although I have to admit we did see some ambiguous wording which we will post later.

[PrincessTower]

[captain_caveman]

Dubai Select Steve must be panicking, chrikes look at him go into overtime with all his glossy pictures posting over the last 24 hrs. Desperation to hide some of the negetative postings on here prehaps?

[shakka]

Oh nice pictures BTW

[shakka]

Originally Posted by scoobudubai

We found this really useful, thanks:

http://www.selectdubaibeware.com/Sel...ales_Agent.pdf

It shows how for over 2 years Mark Stott's company appeared in the newspapers, including the financial times, as a developer, then:

in March 2008 Select Property
took the landmark decision
to move into overseas
property development



What we don't understand is the reservation form that people signed. It made no mention of the developer, and in the case where it said 'agent', which was the only time we ever saw that term used, we, presumably like other people thought that it referred to the sales agent for commission, e.g. Adam Price, and wrote the name beside it so that he could get his commission - we think he even asked us to do that - not sure.

If you feel you have been defrauded, and maybe you have already contacted the serious fraud office - then do it again!!!! now!!!

Case -NOT OVER- period.

Any case of criminally masterminded fraud casting people into a fifteen year deal whereby they might feel 'blackmailed' or otherwise into continuing payments for fear of losing everything must be reported to the police and the SFO - such people might be subject to e.g. a developer massively delaying construction and using funds to start new projects whilst looking forward to people suffering financial hardship so that they could simply keep all money paid to date, plus their apartment, with no real legal recourse - e.g. the system in Dubai seems to favour the developer and to continue paying 'installments' and in addition paying legal fees in a system which ultimately favours the developer , and where cases continue not for months but years...sigh - who said 'scam'?

Definitely a scam. However arbitration then court if necc will get you your money back plus interest.

[scoobudubai]

I know some people who have gone to file a claim in the U.K. High Court against the Cheshire company -and- the Dubai PO Box number company, both together.

[True Blue]

Originally Posted by True Blue

Title deeds

Can anyone who has received their title deeds clarify an issue with the total area. Your deed should detail the apartment area and the balcony area sperately and the total of these areas should be roughly the area sold to you by Select (normally +/- 5%)

Has the area of the car parking space been included by Select to gross up the sales area? In other words, is a 2 bed with sold area 1200ft really just an apartment of say1000ft plus balcony 50ft plus 1 parking of 150ft?

appreciate if anyone can shed light on this issue as I have come accross it so many times in Botanica, Torch and now BC but it has never been conclusive what Select have actually done.

Thanks for the replies thus far on the subject of apartment area.

I still haven't had a direct answer about the actual areas recorded in the deeds versus the area mentioned in the SPA. If anyone can provide that comparison for a 2 bed unit it would be helpful?

[barry mcbarry]

Originally Posted by scoobudubai

Here is another thing (all according to our observations but we have yet to see anything to the contrary) - when some people thought they were buying direct from the developer U.K. company Dubai Select Ltd / (renamed without telling us) Select Property Group Ltd (U.K. Mark Stott company), they signed a contract who they believed was with the same company, even though it said 'Torch Select Ltd.'. The contract according to what we have heard had absolutely no additional information about this company 'Torch Select Ltd' other that a PO Box number in Dubai. The contract said that the contract in itself was the total agreement. There was no possible way to contact Torch Select Ltd other than using that PO Box number, and the contract said it had to be by courier. The same clause (17 we've heard?) said that the only official lines of cummunication were 1. by fax - (but no fax number was provided so this was not possible as the contract (SPA) did not provide a fax number) 2. by person (no street address was provided so again this was / is not possible as the contract constituted the entire agreement) 3. by courier.

So the -only- way to contact Torch Select Ltd was and is by courier, this has proved very expensive.

Furthermore, no details whatsoever are provided about Torch Select Ltd. apart from a PO box number. The location and registration country of this company is effectively unknown - some people assume JAFZA. The MOA is unknown to at least someone who we know requested it. The Certificate of incorporation is unknown - as before. The shareholders, directors are unknown - as before. The people who signed The Torch Select Ltd. contract it's behalf were paid employees of Mark Stott's U.K. company - at least that's what we have seen.

If some clever people tried to use the 'telephone number' as supplied on the reservation form (which was completely superseded by the SPA, the contract, which constituted the entire agreement), then you would have reached, even though a Dubai number, paid employees of Mark Stott's U.K. company.

Again all of this relates to our observations - if someone has seen otherwise please let us know.

[kuttika]

Originally Posted by barry mcbarry

eventhough this is torch thread, similar situation for baycentral- contract signed by mark Littlewood, bay central development, just po box number, who is select dubai then::::::::::::

[Psofos]

Originally Posted by Dubai_Steve

4,100 sq ft 3 Bed for rent AED 300,000

-3 bedrooms with balconies, 1 en suite bathroom.
-1 maids rooms, en suite bathrooms, walk in showers
-1 storage area
-Huge lounge
-Separate dining room
-2 car parking places

Quite simply, this is a must see property in the tallest residential building in the world. The location and the view is phenomenal from the 81st Floor or approximately 320m above sea level. The large living room with balcony stays above Dubai Marina. Private dining at the 81st floor must be an experience, the dining room stretches to a balcony overlooking Dubai Marina and JLT. While cooking in the kitchen which is equipped with exclusive De Dietrich appliances you will be looking at Emirates Hills Golf course. The Torch is very close to commercial centres, JBR, public beech, restaurants and entertainments! The GYM, you will be running just above the yachts berthed in the marina, it has separate male and female section with steam room, sauna, pool, kids pool and Jacuzzi and relaxing area.

Good pics Dubai Steve.
Hopefully the fixtures and fittings are of a better quality than those installed in my Point apartment and hopefully fitted properly unlike the bozos who fitted mine. Excellent apartment... what is its realistic selling price?
Psofos.

[Dubai_Steve]

The penthouses are between AED 4m and AED 7m, I believe, depending on size and layout etc.

[scoobudubai]

Originally Posted by kuttika

eventhough this is torch thread, similar situation for baycentral- contract signed by mark Littlewood, bay central development, just po box number, who is select dubai then::::::::::::

It gets even funnier when you look at schedule 10 where you will see that Mark Littlewood a paid employee of Mark Stott also signed for Select Group Ltd.

[Dubai_Steve]

Mark Littlewood is a probably a witness signature for Mark Stott? Mark Stott signed on behalf of the Seller (Torch Select Ltd.)

Mine was witnessed in 2005 by Jill Griffett (Contracts Manager / Account Manager - Dubai Select UK) rather than Mark Littlewood.

[scoobudubai]

Originally Posted by Dubai_Steve

Mark Littlewood is a probably a witness signature for Mark Stott? Mark Stott signed on behalf of the Seller (Torch Select Ltd.)

Mine was witnessed in 2005 by Jill Griffett (Contracts Manager / Account Manager - Dubai Select UK) rather than Mark Littlewood.

So Dubai Steve, in yours Mark Stott signed for Select Group Ltd?

The one we are looking at shows Mark Littlewood's signature for Torch Select Ltd. and Select Group Ltd.
It's all a bit incestuous, isn't it? Mark Stott's company who claimed they use Clyde & Co, Torch Select Ltd. uses Clyde & Co. - with Mark Stott's paid employees signing the 'UAE' contracts I say UAE meaning UAE law, as we don't know for sure the location of Torch Select of Select Group (Seychelles?)

Did Select Group (company under CEO Rahail Aslam) not have anyone who could read or write at the time so they paid Mark Stott's U.K. company to do the signatures?

[AZ_1st]

Originally Posted by scoobudubai

So Dubai Steve, in yours Mark Stott signed for Select Group Ltd?

Did Select Group (company under CEO Rahail Aslam) not have anyone who could read or write at the time so they paid Mark Stott's U.K. company to do the signatures?

Not only that...they also sent some contracts from the UAE to the UK for Mark Littlewood to sign.

[Dubai_Steve]

Originally Posted by scoobudubai

So Dubai Steve, in yours Mark Stott signed for Select Group Ltd?

Yes on behalf of Torch Select. We were told that the seller wanted to remain confidential.

[Dubai_Steve]

[True Blue]

Originally Posted by Dubai_Steve

Yes on behalf of Torch Select. We were told that the seller wanted to remain confidential.

Are you serious! I would have run a mile if someone hit me with that line.

[True Blue]

Originally Posted by Dubai_Steve

The penthouses are between AED 4m and AED 7m, I believe, depending on size and layout etc.

Penthouses are proving to be about the worst investment type in Dubai. You can buy them no problem but can not sell them very easily.

Anyone with that money would be better off with a villa.

[Dubai_Steve]

Originally Posted by True Blue

Are you serious! I would have run a mile if someone hit me with that line.

In 2005 property was booming in Dubai. Long queues everywhere just for a chance to reserve an off-plan property and the Torch units selling like hot cakes. Back then it was a risk many were willing to take and did not ask questions, just naively happy to buy into the Dubai dream like all the other equity rich sheep. A simple 15 year payment plan offered to boot along with the hype and excitement of Dubailand etc. Who cared at the time if the seller wanted to remain confidential or put their money in the Seychelles

Things are different now in the doom and gloom of the post bubble double dip recession era