daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 1st, 2009, 08:25 AM   #401
Highwaycrazy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 141
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by odlum833 View Post
Ireland shows infrastructure credentials with Europes longest urban motorway tunnel. It goes from the M50 to outside Dublin Port.
Except that the tolls to use this tunnel are the most expensive. Rip-off Ireland.

On top of paying high Road Tax for small engine sizes.
Highwaycrazy no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old November 1st, 2009, 02:46 PM   #402
Chris_533976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 210
Likes (Received): 27

Its not designed for cars, hence the high tolls. Its designed solely for trucks/lorries.
Chris_533976 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 1st, 2009, 04:56 PM   #403
odlum833
Registered User
 
odlum833's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 10,074
Likes (Received): 2182

+1 hence why the toll is 12 euro at peak hours. It does drop to 6 euro at night and 3 euro at weekends? - bank holidays aswell I think.
__________________
Ireland forum is here

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1596
odlum833 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 1st, 2009, 05:07 PM   #404
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,603
Likes (Received): 19390

This tunnel is one of the weirdest in Europe, financially. They wouldn't build it wide enough so that it could also relief traffic for commuters, so they have decided to put a high toll for cars, but no toll for HGV's.

Kinda weird, it's almost if they don't want to solve traffic problems in Dublin.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old November 1st, 2009, 05:30 PM   #405
odlum833
Registered User
 
odlum833's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 10,074
Likes (Received): 2182

It was only meant to take HGV's off city streets because Dublin is unique in that it is the only Capital in Europe in which the port is located in the center and all traffic has to go through the city center to get to it. That ,meant thousands of trucks trundling down city streets. With the tunnel trucks are banned from the city center altogether. Though cars can use it the tunnel is not a commuter route and was never meant to be. It's sole purpose is to take trucks to the port though buses can also use it.


They had to ban oil tankers for a while a few years back because of a narrow escape. A tanker went down the tunnel and only a minute after leaving it it burst into flames. Now I think oil tankers are still escorted at different times of the day. The tunnel's safety systems have also come under scrutiny in recent months though I think this has been rectified at this stage.


The city streets are so much better then they were before it opened. For cyclists and pedestrians it was pretty lethal in the city center.
__________________
Ireland forum is here

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1596

Last edited by odlum833; November 1st, 2009 at 05:52 PM.
odlum833 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 1st, 2009, 05:49 PM   #406
Stainless
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pyeongnae
Posts: 420
Likes (Received): 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by odlum833 View Post
It was only meant to take HGV's off city streets because Dublin is unique in that it is the only Capital in Europe in which the port is located in the center and all traffic has to go through the city center to get to it. That ,meant thousands of trucks trundling down city streets. With the tunnel trucks are banned from the city center altogether. Though cars can use it the tunnel is not a commuter route and was never meant to be. It's sole purpose is to take trucks to the port though buses can also use it.
I think Stockholm, Tallinn and Helsinki are similar, they also have busy ferry terminals in the Centres. Ireland can also make use of Ports in Rosslare and Belfast which have similar connections.
Stainless no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 1st, 2009, 07:54 PM   #407
odlum833
Registered User
 
odlum833's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 10,074
Likes (Received): 2182

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stainless View Post
I think Stockholm, Tallinn and Helsinki are similar, they also have busy ferry terminals in the Centres. Ireland can also make use of Ports in Rosslare and Belfast which have similar connections.

Ferry ports? Dublin Port is a large cargo port as well though.


Here, you can see on a map the logistical problem for the Port

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53...344727&zoom=13
__________________
Ireland forum is here

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1596

Last edited by odlum833; November 1st, 2009 at 08:14 PM.
odlum833 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 1st, 2009, 11:59 PM   #408
Highwaycrazy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 141
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by odlum833 View Post

The city streets are so much better then they were before it opened. For cyclists and pedestrians it was pretty lethal in the city center.
Thats not true. The government of ireland get billions in revenue from big rigs being on the roads, pedestrians and cyclists don't pay the government a road tax so the idea of making city centre off-limits for trucks/cars is biased. Everyone has a right to use the streets.
Highwaycrazy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2009, 03:03 AM   #409
geogregor
Registered User
 
geogregor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London
Posts: 15,522
Likes (Received): 19160

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwaycrazy View Post
Thats not true. The government of ireland get billions in revenue from big rigs being on the roads, pedestrians and cyclists don't pay the government a road tax so the idea of making city centre off-limits for trucks/cars is biased. Everyone has a right to use the streets.
Do you really want thousands of HGV on the narrow streets of the city?
You must be mad.
geogregor está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2009, 01:45 AM   #410
Highwaycrazy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 141
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
Do you really want thousands of HGV on the narrow streets of the city?
You must be mad.
The problem doesn't relate to that, it relates to the fact that big rigs are forced to use the alternative route (M50 Highway) which happens to be tolled. Perhaps lifting the M50 toll for trucks wanting to access Dublin Port would be more appropriate.
Highwaycrazy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2009, 03:13 AM   #411
transport21
Registered User
 
transport21's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 231
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwaycrazy View Post
The problem doesn't relate to that, it relates to the fact that big rigs are forced to use the alternative route (M50 Highway) which happens to be tolled. Perhaps lifting the M50 toll for trucks wanting to access Dublin Port would be more appropriate.
I agree with you that trucks are getting a good deal but it is still good to keep them off the city streets. It reduces congestion on the M50 after J3 too.

Anyway Latest updates on M7 Nenagh - Limerick

These two at Dromin north of the crossover of the current N7

Looking East


Looking west


Overbridge south of the Nenagh bypass


About 1km of boggy land could delay the opening the scheme further as seen a few posts back. The Word is Bor over on boards.ie posted a link to a interesting presentation on the works in the bogs of Drominboy and Lisnagry:

http://www.geolsoc.org.uk/webdav/sit...on_Jan2008.pdf
__________________
.
transport21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2009, 03:22 AM   #412
transport21
Registered User
 
transport21's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 231
Likes (Received): 0

Some updates on the M18 Gort to Crusheen:

I had a good look at the scheme today which I haven't had a chance to do for a few months. So whats going on with it? Well the first major note is nearly all earthworks are completed, although there is one section where more groundwork has to be done before the construction of the last overbridge to start.

Shanaglish Overbridge is very close to completion. As you can see the asphalt is being laid over now with the side rail and footpath down.



Looking east from Shanaglish overbridge


Looking west from Shanaglish overbridge


R460 overbridge is also very advanced



Mainline north of the R460 overbridge


Mainline north of the Curraderra overbridge


Crusheen Interchange


Tubber to Crusheen overbridge


This section needs close attention where the Rathwilladoon overbridge is being construced. The area is flooded with water as the mainline passes through a Turlough in the area. It was realigned to avoid parts of it due to habitat in the area of the Turlough, blasting is ongoing on the limestone here at the moment. The overbridge will be the last to start on this scheme.

Looking south


Looking north
__________________
.
transport21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2009, 11:38 PM   #413
Highwaycrazy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 141
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by transport21 View Post
I agree with you that trucks are getting a good deal but it is still good to keep them off the city streets. It reduces congestion on the M50 after J3 too.


Where did I say that? I don't think you properly read my previous posts regarding the high toll costs in ireland, considering the fact theres already a road tax that drivers must pay annually. If big rigs need to access Dublin port, they should be exempt from paying a toll on the M50 because they are banned from using the main roads through the city.
Highwaycrazy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2009, 12:36 AM   #414
odlum833
Registered User
 
odlum833's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 10,074
Likes (Received): 2182

They don't pay a toll for the port tunnel.
__________________
Ireland forum is here

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1596
odlum833 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2009, 09:20 AM   #415
transport21
Registered User
 
transport21's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 231
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwaycrazy View Post


Where did I say that? I don't think you properly read my previous posts regarding the high toll costs in ireland, considering the fact theres already a road tax that drivers must pay annually. If big rigs need to access Dublin port, they should be exempt from paying a toll on the M50 because they are banned from using the main roads through the city.
The only way we could have an extensive motorway network was by running some schemes under the PPP mechanism. The government could not afford to build the entire motorway network with taxpayers money only. Therefore there is a high amount of tolls in the country. Road tax does not go directly to the government but to the local authority to repair local roads in their region. Lately this has changed with the NRA taking over all roads including the regional route network.

Just the let you know, we pay road tax annually whereas the country where you live you probably pay that road tax every time you fill your petrol/diesel tank up. Compare the petrol prices and see for yourself.
__________________
.

Last edited by transport21; November 5th, 2009 at 10:56 AM.
transport21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2009, 09:46 PM   #416
geogregor
Registered User
 
geogregor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London
Posts: 15,522
Likes (Received): 19160

Quote:
Originally Posted by transport21 View Post
T Therefore there is a high amount of tolls in the country.
Come on guys, you have just few relatively low tolls comparing to some other European countries.
I would happily agree to have similar tolls in Poland in exchange for fairly comprehensive motorways network connecting all major regions of the country.
geogregor está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2009, 09:46 PM   #417
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,603
Likes (Received): 19390

In my opinion, tolling a ring road is ridiculous, it encourages people to use city streets instead of the ring road.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2009, 02:25 AM   #418
odlum833
Registered User
 
odlum833's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 10,074
Likes (Received): 2182

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
In my opinion, tolling a ring road is ridiculous, it encourages people to use city streets instead of the ring road.

Whilst I agree in principle - the M50 is VERY busy and needs to be restrained of traffic also. A toll should not have been put on it but it is only in one location. You can use most of it and not pay the toll.
__________________
Ireland forum is here

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1596
odlum833 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2009, 12:19 PM   #419
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,603
Likes (Received): 19390

Yeah, but as I remember correctly, the toll is on a vital section of M50, exactly halfway the city. Even with the M50 being a longer distance than right through the center of Dublin, it should be more attractive to drivers; high speeds (= more lanes if necessary), no tolls. Otherwise you just encourage people to drive through the city center, which is the last thing you want.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2009, 03:04 PM   #420
emerald-roads
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5
Likes (Received): 0



Pay a couple of Euros and get to your destination on time and in comfort with no stress

or...

wind your way through the streets of Dublin to save said few Euros but end up late.

Come on you know what you'd rather have - the tolls are in no way off-putting to the average driver, and without them the motorways and bypasses wouldn't be there in the first place. If they were charging €10 a time, then maybe yes I'd understand your point. But the reality is its a small price to pay to alleviate Dublin's streets, and give drivers comfortable, certain journey times.

Countries with a small population and therefore much lower tax income for the government, have to rely on PPP schemes and other road tolls in order to have a decent road infrastructure. Any of the new EU members in Eastern Europe will have the same issues. Britain, Germany and other large nations have the coffers to be able to do it without the need for such support. Ireland has done well to open the lengths of motorways it has without such tolls. The policy of having 2 on each inter-urban is remarkably good when one considers the number of tolls found on French or Spanish routes. Plus you're effectively paying for the upkeep of the road, so you know it will remain in a good working condition with regular maintenance.

So don't get so worked up about city streets being clogged with through traffic because they don't want to pay the tolls, because 99% of the time thats utter rubbish, in other countries maybe not so, but in Western Europe people do indeed have common sense and would rather pay the toll and use the exceptionally high quality bypass that the M50 will soon be when the upgrades are finished.
emerald-roads no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium