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Old November 7th, 2009, 03:18 PM   #421
ChrisZwolle
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As I understand, the M50 is quite congested. And you pay tolls for that.

It's a common thing that people tend to avoid tolls if possible. They are called "shunpikers". If the policy is to relieve city streets, then bypasses should be free to attract as much drivers as possible. For many people traveling north to south in Dublin, the distance via M50 will be longer. To compensate that longer distance, there has to be something better about it; such as faster travel, and possibly toll free.

Except for toll connections where there are no serious alternates (like the bridges in Denmark, the San Francisco Bay Area or New York), traffic volumes on a toll road are always lower than if it was toll free. Why is that? Because people avoid it, they use other streets, often not intended or designed for that kind of traffic.

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; November 7th, 2009 at 04:37 PM. Reason: typo
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Old November 7th, 2009, 04:28 PM   #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emerald-roads View Post

the exceptionally high quality bypass that the M50 will soon be when the upgrades are finished.
I'm sorry but I disagree - It will be high quality yes but nothing 'exceptional'.

Other countries have had such motorways for decades. What always struck me about the M50 was the short-term planning involved. For example it was built with 2 lanes in each direction instead of 3 which was obviously required, albeit with the sense to include wide medians to allow for future 3+3 expansion as is happening now.
Roundabout junctions are now being retrofitted to a free-flowing form, but the lack of long-term planning for this possibility in terms of securing adjacent land for future free flow junction slip roads has resulted in some of the now free-flowing junctions being of quite awkward design (eg N4/M50).

I particularly remember coming from the N4 to head south on the M50 earlier this year - the turning radius here was suprisingly sharp and I had to reduce speed considerably.
On the plus side the need for overhead gantries has now been recognised and their clarity much improved.
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Old November 7th, 2009, 06:25 PM   #423
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look at Google Earth, the road above tunnel is extremely congested, while toll gates are gaping empty. that means that people are massively avoiding the toll
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Old November 7th, 2009, 07:39 PM   #424
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Originally Posted by transport21 View Post
The only way we could have an extensive motorway network was by running some schemes under the PPP mechanism. The government could not afford to build the entire motorway network with taxpayers money only.
Fair point, but the Road Tax rates in Ireland are the Highest in the EU. No other EU country charges the equivalent. My friend pays €600.00 Road Tax on his 2 Litre engine annually. In Germany, its nearly €132.00. With those kind of rates, its enough to sustain the finance for new Highways, without the need to slap on a toll.

The M50 is the only beltway around Dublin and its not very clever of the Irish Government to impose a €3.00 toll because it only encourages drivers to use city streets. The aim of the M50 was to divert traffic away from the city...



Quote:
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Just the let you know, we pay road tax annually whereas the country where you live you probably pay that road tax every time you fill your petrol/diesel tank up. Compare the petrol prices and see for yourself.

not the case because petrol/diesel is also taxed in ireland. Plus the Road Tax on top of this means you still pay much more to drive in ireland, even if you only drive 1,000 km a year.
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Old November 7th, 2009, 07:49 PM   #425
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Originally Posted by niterider View Post
future 3+3 expansion as is happening now.

It's 4x4 with a lane drop at each junction. I would not describe the M50 as a "ring road" anyway - more like a main street at this stage.
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Last edited by odlum833; November 7th, 2009 at 07:54 PM.
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Old November 7th, 2009, 08:18 PM   #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwaycrazy View Post
Fair point, but the Road Tax rates in Ireland are the Highest in the EU. No other EU country charges the equivalent. My friend pays €600.00 Road Tax on his 2 Litre engine annually. In Germany, its nearly €132.00. With those kind of rates, its enough to sustain the finance for new Highways, without the need to slap on a toll.
The Netherlands is more expensive.

For instance, if you drive a car of 1300 kg with a diesel engine, the annual fee is € 1176. If you drive a small car of 1000 kg with a petrol engine, the annual fee is lower, but still € 352. They don't charge according to engine capacity, but weight and fuel type.
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Old November 7th, 2009, 09:22 PM   #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The Netherlands is more expensive.

For instance, if you drive a car of 1300 kg with a diesel engine, the annual fee is € 1176. If you drive a small car of 1000 kg with a petrol engine, the annual fee is lower, but still € 352. They don't charge according to engine capacity, but weight and fuel type.
this is good. here we have stupid law which says that you must pay extra fee for LPG for instance. idiotism. i don't know how large is road-tax-fee, i know that i pay for my Punto 1.2 yearly registration and techincal inspection about 1000 kn (cca 140€)
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Old November 7th, 2009, 10:00 PM   #428
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LPG cars are also taxed more than petrol in the Netherlands. A 1300 kg LPG-G3 car will cost you € 852 annually. On the other hand, LPG costs only like € 0,50 per liter, but the fuel consumption is higher too (my dad drives a Renault Espace LPG-G3 that consumes 11 l / 100 km).

In Denmark, the LPG price is over € 1,50 to discourage it's use. Weird politics....
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Old November 8th, 2009, 02:22 AM   #429
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M9 motorway from Carlow to Waterford. Pics from Southern end by Alpha2zero on Boards.ie.

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr



Whilst no opening date is confirmed the speculation is that the road will open on the 15th of December. The scheme length is 64km.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------









Video of recently opened Mitchelstown - Fermoy motorway on the new M8 Dublin - Cork Route (Southbound)




Thanks for posting your pics here T21.
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Old November 8th, 2009, 02:49 PM   #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
look at Google Earth, the road above tunnel is extremely congested, while toll gates are gaping empty. that means that people are massively avoiding the toll
I think tunnel was designed primarily for lorries going to Port of Dublin. They don't pay toll but can't use Dublin streets.
Tolls for cars are quite steep to encourage people to use public transport.
At least that's official policy, I don't know how well it is working.
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Old November 8th, 2009, 03:57 PM   #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
I think tunnel was designed primarily for lorries going to Port of Dublin. They don't pay toll but can't use Dublin streets.
Tolls for cars are quite steep to encourage people to use public transport.
At least that's official policy, I don't know how well it is working.
i agree with you. does Dublin have congestion fee for cars in centre zone like London?
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Old November 8th, 2009, 04:23 PM   #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emerald-roads View Post


Pay a couple of Euros and get to your destination on time and in comfort with no stress

or...

wind your way through the streets of Dublin to save said few Euros but end up late.
The problem is that not everyone is in transit (not at all). Someone going from northeastern to southeastern Ireland over Dublin, will most probably use the M50, while someone departing from Dublin itself might not, even if it's faster and (s)he lives close to the bypass. They also have toll on Milan orbital.
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Old November 9th, 2009, 07:47 PM   #433
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i agree with you. does Dublin have congestion fee for cars in centre zone like London?
No. They're talking about it but there isnt nearly enough public transport infrastructure to do it, nor is there the money available to build the public transport infrastructure
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Old November 9th, 2009, 11:35 PM   #434
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No. They're talking about it but there isnt nearly enough public transport infrastructure to do it, nor is there the money available to build the public transport infrastructure
Not forgetting to mention were borrowing €500 million a week from the ECB to keep the country afloat!
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Old November 10th, 2009, 01:47 AM   #435
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I can not tell you how angry I feel at you two. Take the imbecilic nonsense elsewhere so we can discuss roads thank you.


Anyway....

More M9 pics by Ramiere on Boards






image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr
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Old November 10th, 2009, 02:19 AM   #436
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M6 Ballinasloe to Galway (due to open next month and last bit of the M6 )

Photos taken by KevR on boards.ie

Here is the N6 bit which has wide median close to Galway city as 3 lanes may be needed in the future as the road will take M18, M17 and M6 traffic once Gort to Tuam PPP is done.







Nice shot of the traffic corps taking a spin



Start of the M6
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Old November 10th, 2009, 02:24 AM   #437
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Looks superb. Nearly ready to go in fact. Why is the solid yellow line not all the way to the end? Will there be blue signs on that stretch?
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Old November 10th, 2009, 03:49 AM   #438
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Looks superb. Nearly ready to go in fact. Why is the solid yellow line not all the way to the end? Will there be blue signs on that stretch?
Wonderful roads....thanks for all the pics. I can't wait to visit Ireland someday and I can't wait to drive on your fantastic, new roads.
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Old November 10th, 2009, 12:44 PM   #439
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Looks superb. Nearly ready to go in fact. Why is the solid yellow line not all the way to the end? Will there be blue signs on that stretch?
I think it's due to the Galway bypass(planning) that the last few km's near Galway were not redesignated to motorway. Some parts of the scheme are not as advanced as this though.
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Old November 10th, 2009, 12:58 PM   #440
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Wonderful roads....thanks for all the pics. I can't wait to visit Ireland someday and I can't wait to drive on your fantastic, new roads.
I would wait til early 2011 when all major motorways are complete. Below is the Limerick bypass(tunnel) phase 2 under construction due to open on June, phase 1 was redesignated motorway M7 a few months ago.

Looking east towards st nessans rd overbridge


Looking west(dock rd interchange)
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