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Old January 10th, 2011, 12:41 AM   #841
DanielFigFoz
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It's interesting that the signs for County Tipperary don't say North or South, other than the websites, but I guess it's a cultural thing. My Y-chromosome is from South Tipperary .
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Old January 10th, 2011, 12:59 AM   #842
g.spinoza
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I thought English and Irish were equal on Ireland road signs... apparently they aren't.
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Old January 10th, 2011, 06:16 AM   #843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I thought English and Irish were equal on Ireland road signs... apparently they aren't.
Similar in many ways, but also very different. The ROI uses E-numbering, for starters. Also, the ROI seems to use "new world" signage in many instances (the same signage that you'd find in the US, Canada and Australia).

The new motorways are beautiful though. The ROI now has a world class road infrastructure, more than fitting for it's relatively low population.
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Old January 10th, 2011, 10:16 AM   #844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
It's interesting that the signs for County Tipperary don't say North or South, other than the websites, but I guess it's a cultural thing. My Y-chromosome is from South Tipperary .
Well technically people think of counties in the GAA sense and not the local authority one. For example People regard Dublin as one county even though it's divided into 4 local authorities: Dublin City (County Borough), Fingal (County Council), Dublin South (County) and Dún Laoghaire + Rathdown (County Council).

As a result there are 29 county councils and 4 County Boroughs in the republic however there are only 26 counties. As to why Tipp North/South still exists is beyond me. Galway use to also have a "West/East" Riding in the late 19th century. However given that a merger of the two Tipp's would require councillors to vote for it I can't see it happening (Turkeys voting for Xmas?)
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Old January 10th, 2011, 03:38 PM   #845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb View Post
Similar in many ways, but also very different. The ROI uses E-numbering, for starters. Also, the ROI seems to use "new world" signage in many instances (the same signage that you'd find in the US, Canada and Australia).
I was referring mostly to the languages used. I thought that Gaelic and English were written with the same font and had the same importance...
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Old January 10th, 2011, 04:25 PM   #846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I was referring mostly to the languages used. I thought that Gaelic and English were written with the same font and had the same importance...
The issue then becomes how do you tell them apart? I don't like the Welsh way of doing this (ie both are identical) because it's often hard to work out which is a Welsh translation of an English name and which is a completely new place.

I also dislike the Scottish approach of putting the Gaelic in a different colour (yellow). That de-emphasises it more than the Irish approach. The Irish name is first, but in mixed case italic so it's distinguishable from the English, which comes second but is in capitals. I think it's much easier to apply a quick mental filter with this approach, and screen out the Irish (or English) when quickly skimming a sign at 120 km/h.

Irish appears first, but English is in capitals. Seems 50/50 if you ask me!

/csd
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Old January 10th, 2011, 04:46 PM   #847
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Yeah there's no way to do it without making some compromises. (Well, unless we go back to the old Irish script or something...)

Of course the regular signage has to be equal but road signage is different, it must be read at speed.

In theory the Scottish style is better but in practice yellow on green is more difficult to see and there's not the same differentiation on first glance.

Indeed the current way arguably is fair because both English and Irish are made less legible(!), one with all-caps and the other with italics.

As an Irish person I've no problem picking out the destinations anyway. Even in the non-bilingual parts of the UK it can be harder for me than the republic of Ireland because they leave less space between destinations. No doubt foreigners would have to get used to the all-caps here first though.
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Old January 10th, 2011, 06:19 PM   #848
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizee View Post
Indeed the current way arguably is fair because both English and Irish are made less legible(!), one with all-caps and the other with italics.
Why do you write that all-caps is less legible? I think it's quite the opposite. It's bigger, so it can be read from distance.
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Old January 10th, 2011, 06:32 PM   #849
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Well apparently studies have shown it's harder to read than mixed case because it's used less often and you can't pick up the familar "shape" of the word.

The all-caps English does seem pretty clear to me on the Irish roadsigns, however I am used to them.
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Old January 10th, 2011, 07:06 PM   #850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Why do you write that all-caps is less legible? I think it's quite the opposite. It's bigger, so it can be read from distance.
Apparently all-caps are read 50% slower than upper & lower case, and serif fonts are read 20% quicker than sans-serif. As dizee says, the shapes of lower-case characters are quicker to recognise.

/csd
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Old January 10th, 2011, 07:52 PM   #851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubhthach View Post
Well technically people think of counties in the GAA sense and not the local authority one. For example People regard Dublin as one county even though it's divided into 4 local authorities: Dublin City (County Borough), Fingal (County Council), Dublin South (County) and Dún Laoghaire + Rathdown (County Council).

As a result there are 29 county councils and 4 County Boroughs in the republic however there are only 26 counties. As to why Tipp North/South still exists is beyond me. Galway use to also have a "West/East" Riding in the late 19th century. However given that a merger of the two Tipp's would require councillors to vote for it I can't see it happening (Turkeys voting for Xmas?)
I know about the first this, but I didn't know about the former split of Galway.
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Old January 10th, 2011, 08:20 PM   #852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
It's bigger, so it can be read from distance.
Others have chipped in, but upper-case is only bigger for aceimnorsuvwxz (letters without ascenders or descenders). But the problem is, is it makes all letters the same size - the ascenders and descenders make names recognisable before you can even discern the letters.

Upper case is perhaps easier to read for words with no ascenders or descenders (other than the initial capital letter being higher) as the letters are bigger, but studies have shown that it's not easier to read in general.

The original road sign font for the UK was ALL-CAPS, but Transport is Mixed-Case as they did experiments and found that Mixed-Case was easier to read.
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Old January 10th, 2011, 08:31 PM   #853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csd View Post
Apparently all-caps are read 50% slower than upper & lower case, and serif fonts are read 20% quicker than sans-serif.
/csd
I must be the exception confirming the rule. I read all caps and lower case more or less at the same pace (but I can read all caps from farther), and I read sans-serif fonts waaaaay quicker then serif, in fact I changed all fonts in my pc to be all sans-serif.
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Old January 10th, 2011, 09:13 PM   #854
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But aren't signs like that electronic one and temp signs sometimes only in English?
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Old January 10th, 2011, 10:52 PM   #855
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Quote:
There have been a few crashes at these already as people aren't expecting such a sharp angle at the exit.
It seems odd that these are used/allowed for a motorway standard.
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Old January 10th, 2011, 11:10 PM   #856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
But aren't signs like that electronic one and temp signs sometimes only in English?
Yeah that's true I've never seen a VMS with Irish on it. Might be questionable legally. Similar example is the warning labels on cigarette boxes, they used to be English-only for years and it was actually an Irish citizen that took the state to court over it, so now they're all bilingual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanx06 View Post
It seems odd that these are used/allowed for a motorway standard.
It must have been designed as a HQDC (high quality dual carriageway) and redesignated when it was under construction because I'm pretty sure those exits wouldn't be allowed if it was motorway from the start. Our road construction guide is almost exactly the same as the UK one. (Well it used to be anyway.)

There's nothing inherently wrong with LILO exits (plenty of them on the German autobahns) although they're not ideal but they really should have a more generous turn than 90°. At very least they could do with a big chevron sign and crash barriers on that traffic island. Drivers will have to get used to them quickly.
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Old January 10th, 2011, 11:53 PM   #857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizee View Post
There's nothing inherently wrong with LILO exits (plenty of them on the German autobahns) although they're not ideal but they really should have a more generous turn than 90°. At very least they could do with a big chevron sign and crash barriers on that traffic island. Drivers will have to get used to them quickly.
Lol, well it does give a whole new meaning to a RIGHT angle!
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Old January 12th, 2011, 01:13 PM   #858
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Right angle off-Ramp That is an accident waiting to happen.

On a new Highway, the people who designed this either never made the grade or they had it too easy. In any case, it defeats the whole purpose of a Motorway/Highway - in which case, turn-offs are always tapered. Obviously a re-invention of a Motorway meaning.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 11:46 PM   #859
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M7 Nenagh to Limerick

M7 Junctions 25 to 28


...continues on from last set.

1. This is the Nenagh bypass, which opened as a single-carriageway road with grade-separated interchanges at each end. We are approaching exit 25 which was completed as part of the upgrade to motorway standard.
image hosted on flickr

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

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Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

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Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

2. Between junctions 25 and 26 is this long straight section, originally single carriageway with one lane and a hard shoulder in each direction.
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Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

3. Was very true on Sunday! There were multiple accidents on the M7 - we really need more VMSs warning motorists to slow down in these conditions.
image hosted on flickr

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

4. Junction 26 and its approaches.
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Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

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Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

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Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

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Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

5. This was the end of the Nenagh bypass. The new build section of the Nenagh - Limerick scheme started here.
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Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

6. Nenagh - Birdhill section (junctions 26 - 27)
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Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

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7. Approaching exit 27.
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Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

8. Parking area. Not very well protected from mainline motorway traffic...
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Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

9. ...one hour's parking allowed, no pedestrians.
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Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

10. Approaching exit 27.
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Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

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Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

11. The section between junctions 27 and 28 opened late because of difficulties with subsidence across two bogs along the route. Some pilings were over 30 metres long and still they couldn't stablise the ground without further remedial work.
image hosted on flickr

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

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Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

12. It's difficult to see, but this is the first of the bog sections.
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Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

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Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

13. Cutting and bridge.
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Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

14. Approaching junction 28.
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Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

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Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

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Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

...after this, the M7 continues as a southern bypass of Limerick before terminating at exit 30, the interchange with the M20 and N18. But that's for another day!

/csd
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Old January 15th, 2011, 03:31 PM   #860
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Thanks for sharing csd. You say the Limerick southern bypass M7 route comes to an end at the M20/N18 exit 30... Does this route then connect directly with the Shannon tunnel from this point on???
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