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Old January 31st, 2009, 11:36 PM   #281
IndyYeah
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This building is partially modelled after my past favorite Knights of Pythias building. Anyone have a scan of the Knights that we can somewhat compare the two?
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Old February 1st, 2009, 12:46 AM   #282
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One of the greater losses of architecture in this city.
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Old February 1st, 2009, 10:38 PM   #283
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One of the greater losses of architecture in this city.
You got it. One of the reasons why I am picky about architecture!
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 12:18 AM   #284
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Knights of Pythias

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This building is partially modelled after my past favorite Knights of Pythias building. Anyone have a scan of the Knights that we can somewhat compare the two?
I think this building was put on the chopping block when One Indiana Square was built..could be wrong. 3 Mass Ave seems like a solid development but doesn't compare to buildings like these..


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Old February 2nd, 2009, 04:56 AM   #285
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You are right.
A whole city block was destroyed for that box. I think the only structure spared is an early 20th century building on the North West corner of the block.
Another tragedy is the loss of a portion of Massachusetts Avenue.
A great deal of our unique city layout has been lost.
Kentucky Avenue does not even exist downtown anymore. The only intact avenue is Virginia, and it has been altered greatly.
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 06:31 AM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BosartBrown View Post
I think this building was put on the chopping block when One Indiana Square was built..could be wrong. 3 Mass Ave seems like a solid development but doesn't compare to buildings like these..


Nice! I wish that building was still here. I'll go ahead and make the obvious statement that it's like a small version of the "Flatiron" building that anchors Madison Square in Manhattan.
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 03:55 PM   #287
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Knights of Pythias should have NEVER gone down...but when One Indiana Sq was proposed, the City was begging for anything downtown, so they essentially gave the farm.
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 12:43 AM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyYeah View Post
This building is partially modelled after my past favorite Knights of Pythias building.
Do you mean it reminds you of the Knights of Pythias building? No offense, but there's no way 3 Mass was modeled after it.

We used to have dozens of flatirons. Indy's original, unbroken grid was a great breeding ground for them.
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Last edited by ablerock; February 3rd, 2009 at 04:29 PM. Reason: Fixed sentence.
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 02:39 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by ablerock View Post
Do you mean it reminds you of the Knights of Pythias building? No offense, but there's no way was 3 Mass modeled after it.

We used to have dozens of flatirons. Indy's original, unbroken grid was a great breeding ground for them.
Not my thoughts. Read Emporis about 3 Mass
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 04:49 PM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyYeah View Post
Not my thoughts. Read Emporis about 3 Mass
Thanks for the clarification. Didn't you question that at all when you read it? 3 Mass doesn't look anything like the Knights of Pythias building. There is not a single piece of Knights of Pythias' architectural DNA in 3 Mass.

Here's what Emporis says:

"It will ...mimic the size, shape, and scale of the Knights of Pythias Building, which stood on the adjacent block to the southwest until the late 1960's."

I'm sorry, but that just sound like some developer BS. (Most of the "facts" sound like they were lifted from a promotional pamphlet, not the result of research by the Emporis team.) They probably said that 3 Mass mimics K of P to appease any NIMBY complaints about its size. "Look, there used to be this other big building down the street and it was historic! It's ok to build this one!"
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 05:18 PM   #291
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3Mass may not be inspired by the Knights of Pythias building, but I think the scale and massing are neverthless excellent. The thing that the Pythias building shows is that 10 or so story buildings are right in place along Mass Ave. - historically accurate. Unfortunately, the city caps heights at around 4 stories now - yuck. The big downside of 3Mass is the extensive use of EIFS, which is really visible even along the Mass Ave frontage as I noticed just this morning walking past it.
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Old February 5th, 2009, 04:43 AM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilson758 View Post
Knights of Pythias should have NEVER gone down...but when One Indiana Sq was proposed, the City was begging for anything downtown, so they essentially gave the farm.
But why at that location? There were plenty of other places the building could have gone.
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Old February 6th, 2009, 04:17 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by ablerock View Post
Thanks for the clarification. Didn't you question that at all when you read it? 3 Mass doesn't look anything like the Knights of Pythias building. There is not a single piece of Knights of Pythias' architectural DNA in 3 Mass.

Here's what Emporis says:

"It will ...mimic the size, shape, and scale of the Knights of Pythias Building, which stood on the adjacent block to the southwest until the late 1960's."

I'm sorry, but that just sound like some developer BS. (Most of the "facts" sound like they were lifted from a promotional pamphlet, not the result of research by the Emporis team.) They probably said that 3 Mass mimics K of P to appease any NIMBY complaints about its size. "Look, there used to be this other big building down the street and it was historic! It's ok to build this one!"
Yes I did question it. However since the somewhat triangle lot, and rounded top area, I figured that I would open the conversation, and compare. Heck, at least it got some discussion going. That is why I asked for both buildings to compare. I sometimes go out there to change a conversation to something like these 2 buildings, and I was surprised at what was said in the blurb, so I ran with it.
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Last edited by IndyYeah; February 6th, 2009 at 04:22 AM. Reason: changed wording
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Old February 6th, 2009, 09:36 PM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyYeah View Post
Yes I did question it. However since the somewhat triangle lot, and rounded top area, I figured that I would open the conversation, and compare. Heck, at least it got some discussion going. That is why I asked for both buildings to compare. I sometimes go out there to change a conversation to something like these 2 buildings, and I was surprised at what was said in the blurb, so I ran with it.
Thanks for keeping the discussion going! I hope you know I'm not chastising you or anything, just trying to get to the bottom of your statement. :-)
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Old February 7th, 2009, 04:11 AM   #295
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Thanks for keeping the discussion going! I hope you know I'm not chastising you or anything, just trying to get to the bottom of your statement. :-)
No problem. It is obvious that the people promoting the building wanted a devise of some sort to get it going, and sell it. My points are just that tiny inkling of a smidgen of well... Wish the real thing was still standing across the street! If someone was to get close to the real Knights building, even a 6 story one, I would love it! I personally would not have a problem with a new one like the real one in the above picture. Really do not think it will happen.
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Old February 12th, 2009, 04:49 PM   #296
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They removed all of the concrete baracades and fencing from Mass Ave last night. There are still some orange plastic baracades, but they may be coming out today too.

With the removal of the streetside baracades you can really get a feel for the street presence the buidling will have.

I do think it is unfortunate that there is only one Mass Ave entrance though. I would have preferred a setup similar to the Davlan for first floor retail.
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Old February 12th, 2009, 05:05 PM   #297
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They removed all of the concrete baracades and fencing from Mass Ave last night. There are still some orange plastic baracades, but they may be coming out today too.

With the removal of the streetside baracades you can really get a feel for the street presence the buidling will have.

I do think it is unfortunate that there is only one Mass Ave entrance though. I would have preferred a setup similar to the Davlan for first floor retail.
I saw that this morning as well. But it does look like there may be slender doors on either side of the main entrance. I'll take a look at lunch.

I'm very disappointed with the size of the windows. There's more brick along the street than glass. It's like the Conrad: you can see what's going on inside, but it doesn't really feel welcoming or public. They're not designed for display or for people outside to see really see what's going on inside. Thank heaven they're not tinted though.

It's really too bad, there are a lot of good examples of proper storefront window design along Mass Ave, such as the Davlan, which you mentioned.

I wonder what kind of businesses they're hoping to draw or have contracts with already.
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Old February 12th, 2009, 05:08 PM   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyYeah View Post
No problem. It is obvious that the people promoting the building wanted a devise of some sort to get it going, and sell it. My points are just that tiny inkling of a smidgen of well... Wish the real thing was still standing across the street! If someone was to get close to the real Knights building, even a 6 story one, I would love it! I personally would not have a problem with a new one like the real one in the above picture. Really do not think it will happen.
I think it would be great if we had a flatiron renaissance in Indy. We could build them at so many intersections.

It's one reason I hate the Villagio so much, it ruined a great opportunity for a contemporary flatiron.
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Old February 12th, 2009, 11:35 PM   #299
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I think it would be great if we had a flatiron renaissance in Indy. We could build them at so many intersections.

It's one reason I hate the Villagio so much, it ruined a great opportunity for a contemporary flatiron.
That would be amazing.
I would love to see structures like the Pythias built again.
I would like seeing some classical and dare I say ornate flatirons and than some more sleek modern flatirons.
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Old February 13th, 2009, 04:36 PM   #300
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The intersection of College & Mass Ave is SREAMING for this type of renaissance
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