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Old October 3rd, 2012, 07:45 AM   #3541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatdane View Post
Yea this is a really weird construction. Surely there must be some concrete on the core?
There is if you check a few pages back
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 10:37 AM   #3542
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It will be 10F by 2012

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Old October 3rd, 2012, 07:00 PM   #3543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatdane View Post
Yea this is a really weird construction. Surely there must be some concrete on the core?
It actually isn't that weird. It always takes a long time to get out of the basement on big buildings like this. All that core steel will be encased in concrete eventually. As comet the cat said, you can actually see the first basement level concrete in some pictures a few pages back. Right now, they need to build up the core steel to a sufficient height so that when all the basement work is finished, the "construction factory" is set and ready to start it's real upward push.

They will need that core height to incorporate the forms and cranes into the core structure. You can see that the current cranes don't have climbing cages and that they are labeled #1 and #3. that indicates to me that they will be moved eventually. and the most likely place is onto climbing rigs like in 1WTC. I think these will climb up the insides if the corner cells in the steel core before it is encased in concrete a few levels below.

In the mean time, basement and core concrete will continue to rise together until the core concrete is sufficiently above ground to build the outer climbing forms that take the concrete all the way up to the core.

At any rate, it is a very cool construction site, even if it feels slow going right now, there is a lot going on down below where we can't see. Thanks to the photographers who keep updating us with these really cool progress pictures.
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 07:39 PM   #3544
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That looks a good knowledgable post, thanks for the insights.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 04:23 AM   #3545
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There will be two ZSL2700 and two M1280D soon.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 11:55 AM   #3546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parsonsnose View Post
That looks a good knowledgable post, thanks for the insights.
The only thing is he is most likely wrong about the cranes. This construction is very similar to shanghai tower's and cranes will most likely remain outside the core as in st. They also won't need climbing cages since they can rise themselves without adding new pieces.

As for the core and the formworks what people here find strange (and I somehow share that feeling) is that you normally install climbing forms on the core already covered with concrete. The forms usually "climb up" being fixed to the concrete core. At least it was like that on every construction site I followed on ssc. The explanation may be for instance that they will stop steel at some point and start catching up with the concrete till all the forms are ready and concrete is high enough to install them. After all notice that it takes some time to assemble those forms on site. On last update there are two inner box forms ready and some u/c and as we know there are 9 needed inside the core plus the formworks around the core. It sure will take some time to assemble them all so who knows maybe core will be covered with concrete by then.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 03:39 PM   #3547
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Not to derail this thread but I found something interesting about the other tower
450m they said
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Old October 4th, 2012, 06:34 PM   #3548
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amazing, i hope it is true!
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Old October 4th, 2012, 06:37 PM   #3549
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@ Munwon
Thanks! Where did you find this model or the photo?

Edit: Shenzhen is really overtaking Shanghai as the no.1 skyline in China.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 06:39 PM   #3550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
The only thing is he is most likely wrong about the cranes. This construction is very similar to shanghai tower's and cranes will most likely remain outside the core as in st. They also won't need climbing cages since they can rise themselves without adding new pieces.

As for the core and the formworks what people here find strange (and I somehow share that feeling) is that you normally install climbing forms on the core already covered with concrete. The forms usually "climb up" being fixed to the concrete core. At least it was like that on every construction site I followed on ssc. The explanation may be for instance that they will stop steel at some point and start catching up with the concrete till all the forms are ready and concrete is high enough to install them. After all notice that it takes some time to assemble those forms on site. On last update there are two inner box forms ready and some u/c and as we know there are 9 needed inside the core plus the formworks around the core. It sure will take some time to assemble them all so who knows maybe core will be covered with concrete by then.
I think you misunderstood my point. I only called attention to the fact that there are not climbing cages currently installed on the cranes, thus they aren't going to climb in place by adding tower sections. They will be need to move. Whether they move in place, or are moved to a different location, I don't know. I'm just an observer from a long way off.

Now, i've also been watching the Chow Tai Fook tower inGuangzhou. Those cranes are climbing up inside the core. It is certainly possible that the cranes will climb up the outside of the core like at Shanghai Tower. In reality it might be easier to bring in the climbing apparatus, attach it to the building and attach it to the existing tower, and then detach the tower from the foundation and start up from their current location. Certainly less cost than taking the cranes apart and moving them into the core. Engineering will dictate that. But either way, the principle is the same, the existing cranes aren't going to stay put for much longer.

As far as the forms, because basement spaces are so complex, they are typically done by static form work. This allows lower concrete core to be tied directly to the raft foundation, walls, and sub level floors to create a complete underground foundation. This continues up to a few levels above ground. Then the static forms are removed (or re-purposed into the climbing form work) and then a climbing form work is assembled and attached. Again, a review of the recent pages on the Chow Tai Fook tower and you can see this process. So while all the climbing form work is being assembled on sight now, I would guess they won't be installed into the inner core cells for a few more weeks.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 06:48 PM   #3551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerZavatar View Post
amazing, i hope it is true!
yup, 450m sounds really good . another megatall would be just perfect
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Old October 4th, 2012, 07:12 PM   #3552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soulcapn View Post
Now, i've also been watching the Chow Tai Fook tower inGuangzhou. Those cranes are climbing up inside the core. It is certainly possible that the cranes will climb up the outside of the core like at Shanghai Tower. In reality it might be easier to bring in the climbing apparatus, attach it to the building and attach it to the existing tower, and then detach the tower from the foundation and start up from their current location. Certainly less cost than taking the cranes apart and moving them into the core. Engineering will dictate that. But either way, the principle is the same, the existing cranes aren't going to stay put for much longer.
Exactly. Process of disassembling and the reassembling cranes in different location is also quite lengthy. To me that make very little sense to move cranes at this stage of construction. When they will be working on the crown it is possible they will remove some of the cranes and install one in more convenient location but certainly not now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soulcapn View Post
As far as the forms, because basement spaces are so complex, they are typically done by static form work. This allows lower concrete core to be tied directly to the raft foundation, walls, and sub level floors to create a complete underground foundation. This continues up to a few levels above ground. Then the static forms are removed (or re-purposed into the climbing form work) and then a climbing form work is assembled and attached. Again, a review of the recent pages on the Chow Tai Fook tower and you can see this process. So while all the climbing form work is being assembled on sight now, I would guess they won't be installed into the inner core cells for a few more weeks.
All true. What is strange about the pingan construction is that you actually can't see any prove of concrete work on the core up to this moment which you would normally do at this point. Sign of that process with static forms used usually reveals itself (in chinese projects) with scaffolding with green netting encasing the core (you could have seen it on chow tai fook or shanghai tower), but there is just steel on pingan which leads to the conclusion that concrete work is way behind the steel, but as I already said in previous post I, like you, believe that until all the forms are ready core will be already encased with concrete which will take couple of weeks for sure. But for that to happen we can expect stop of steel erection at core for some time.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 12:17 AM   #3553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
All true. What is strange about the pingan construction is that you actually can't see any prove of concrete work on the core up to this moment which you would normally do at this point. Sign of that process with static forms used usually reveals itself (in chinese projects) with scaffolding with green netting encasing the core (you could have seen it on chow tai fook or shanghai tower), but there is just steel on pingan which leads to the conclusion that concrete work is way behind the steel, but as I already said in previous post I, like you, believe that until all the forms are ready core will be already encased with concrete which will take couple of weeks for sure. But for that to happen we can expect stop of steel erection at core for some time.

There is proof of basement level core concrete. See the posts here and especially in this image posted last week by here originally by crazyboyxzy:

That shows concrete 1 floor up from the foundation slab. So that concrete and rebar along the core steel is tied directly into the core and down along the core steel to the basement below. And it looks like the workers both outside and inside the core are working on the next level of form work to encase the core.

I would love to see more shots like this, because I think part of the reason this basement has to go so slowly, is because they have to complete the floor slabs out to the perimeter of the foundation hole, so they can then remove the bracing rings and bracing structure one level at a time as they move up.

Once they get to street level, or even just below the current construction deck, then I think you will see form work on the core that is more like the standard "green netting" seen on other Chinese building projects.

Another thing I like about this image, is that you can actually see the super column in the background. Can't wait to see those beasts get above ground.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 12:32 AM   #3554
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Yeah, I stressed I meant concrete on the core. Maybe there even is concrete on the core below the basement level shown on the pic you reposted, but I have never seen it (concrete on the core) on any pic in this thread. Anyhow, first scaffolding around the core is sure good sign concrete work will soon catch up with the steel.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 06:15 AM   #3555
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Oh sweet that's taller than what I thought it was!
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Old October 5th, 2012, 07:43 PM   #3556
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a lot of great information in the above posts! Thanks!
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Old October 5th, 2012, 10:15 PM   #3557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soulcapn View Post
There is proof of basement level core concrete. See the posts here and especially in this image posted last week by here originally by crazyboyxzy:

That shows concrete 1 floor up from the foundation slab. So that concrete and rebar along the core steel is tied directly into the core and down along the core steel to the basement below. And it looks like the workers both outside and inside the core are working on the next level of form work to encase the core.

I would love to see more shots like this, because I think part of the reason this basement has to go so slowly, is because they have to complete the floor slabs out to the perimeter of the foundation hole, so they can then remove the bracing rings and bracing structure one level at a time as they move up.

Once they get to street level, or even just below the current construction deck, then I think you will see form work on the core that is more like the standard "green netting" seen on other Chinese building projects.

Another thing I like about this image, is that you can actually see the super column in the background. Can't wait to see those beasts get above ground.
Thanks. But where are the elevator shafts?
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Old October 5th, 2012, 10:47 PM   #3558
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There may be only one or two elevators which go right down to the bottom of the basement, and they may be in a different part of the core than you can see in the image.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 11:23 PM   #3559
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True, we can only see 1 of the 9 sections the core is made of.
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Old October 6th, 2012, 08:36 PM   #3560
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