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Old February 20th, 2013, 01:45 PM   #4301
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Originally Posted by Eric Offereins View Post

I have no exact numbers but I'd say 1,5 meter in total.
Agree, should be more or less correct
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Old February 21st, 2013, 12:35 AM   #4302
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Originally Posted by ajosh821 View Post
New York has 1WTC, 432 Park Avenue, etc. it is fine for having an Iconic Supertall, don't be greed and give chance for having a supertall building to the other cities worldwide.
Why i am being greedy ? i just wish a building like this was being built here in new York,i did not mean that all supertalls should be built in new York, anyway happy to see this project is moving along .
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Old February 21st, 2013, 01:51 AM   #4303
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Why i am being greedy ?
Because you've already got fabulous buildings coming out of your arse.
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Old February 21st, 2013, 07:26 AM   #4304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankee fan for life View Post
Why i am being greedy ? i just wish a building like this was being built here in new York,i did not mean that all supertalls should be built in new York, anyway happy to see this project is moving along .
If I'm right I think he wants "this" building specifically to be made in NY, just because it resembles somewhat the shape of ESB, Chrysler. It would be cool to have something comparable to this in NY it would just not be able to go 2000ft like this behemoth is going to be. Not bashing you Parson's nose, I just think he and a lot of NY'ers are ready for a Megatall. Since they did get somewhat cheated with 1WTC. about 500ft of cheat.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 02:53 AM   #4305
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They finally started with the two mega columns on the west side, one is already in place, the other one is currently under preparation. What I also noticed this morning is the big square diagrid at the south-east corner. It has now the height of the horizontal steel beams.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 03:06 PM   #4306
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It's an amazing tower
How long are the piles?
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 08:37 AM   #4307
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Can anyone explain what the advantage(s) of using steel plates in the core instead of rebar is/are?
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 09:16 AM   #4308
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Try bending thick rebar, and then try bending thick steel plates. I'm sure the rebar would bend a lot easier! I'm not suggesting a core would bend with rebar in it but steel plates are obviously going to be much stronger than rebar and for a building of this size, big and strong is a must!
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 09:54 AM   #4309
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Steel plates are easier to prefabricate and install as well.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 02:27 PM   #4310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glidescube View Post
Can anyone explain what the advantage(s) of using steel plates in the core instead of rebar is/are?
At first it's not instead, rebars are used as well. This is extremely advanced project.

At second - most other parts are general in steel construction: super-columns, beams, slabs. Using solid steal and plates you stiffen joints between them strengthening entire skyscraper.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 05:54 PM   #4311
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So true. Lots of reinforcing steel bars are being used in addition to the steel plates, and the bars are on both sides of each plate. Now if they didn't use steel plates (like Burj Khalifa), I wonder how much thicker the core walls would have to be? Or if they just used steel beams and columns (+rebar), like 1WTC's core, instead of plates? Or if they used no concrete at all (like original 1WTC/2WTC)?

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2012-11-18 By冬雨
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Last edited by Swiddle; February 23rd, 2013 at 06:02 PM.
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Old February 24th, 2013, 10:11 AM   #4312
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Those are massively huge piles!
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Old February 24th, 2013, 12:39 PM   #4313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peloso View Post
Structural steel does NOT melt, or even weaken, at temperatures produced by a kerosene fire. Documents explaining this are all over the internet. Thermite (traces of which have been found in the WTC rubble) was used to achieve this... you know by whom.
It definitely does weaken. Steel has a melting point of ~1800 K, but turns into an entirely different material at approx. 1000 K (723*C), at which point the chemically unstable carbon structures begin to fail. However, even before that, it would be subject to creep. Creep occurs from about 30% of the melting temperature and up, or 540 K (275*C). Creep is a continuous, slow deformation, which would eventually change the geometry of the element, and thus the forces they were able to bear before failing.
Add to this a disturbed structure where elements are subject to much higher loads than usual (seeing as a fair number of columns and beams were taken out by the impact, and the load they bore had to be redirected to the remaining ones), thermal expansion (causing even higher stresses), and molten aluminium lying around (subject to explode violently upon contact with water), and it's definitely not hard to see that the towers wouldn't need any explosives to come down.

Anyway, this is not the topic to discuss this. Send me a PM if you want to continue the discussion.


Concerning the subject at hand, Ping'an FC, I have a question:

if you look at the "floor" around the tower, it appears to be a smooth concrete slab over the entire site. This slab goes as close to the core it even passes between the exterior supercolumns. Will the walls of the tower be built just on top of this slab, or will it be torn up and replaced by more distinctive flooring? At this point, it's hard to tell where the tower begins or ends. All I see is the core and some supercolumns poking through a big sheet of concrete that covers the entire building site.
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Old February 24th, 2013, 02:24 PM   #4314
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That concrete will go away.
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Old February 24th, 2013, 02:27 PM   #4315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peloso View Post
Structural steel does NOT melt, or even weaken, at temperatures produced by a kerosene fire. Documents explaining this are all over the internet. Thermite (traces of which have been found in the WTC rubble) was used to achieve this... you know by whom.
Steel doesn't melt, but above 600°C, it will lose significant strength due to changes in the crystalline structure.
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Old February 24th, 2013, 02:40 PM   #4316
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@Kyll.Ing.: look at the Shanghai Tower thread aound the 300th page, january and february, something similiar will happen here.
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Old February 24th, 2013, 05:24 PM   #4317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peloso View Post
Structural steel does NOT melt, or even weaken, at temperatures produced by a kerosene fire. Documents explaining this are all over the internet. Thermite (traces of which have been found in the WTC rubble) was used to achieve this... you know by whom.
You realize that's been disproven, right?

Anyway... this building should be safe from real fire damage since it's largely concrete and a lot of new safety features were integrated.
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Old February 24th, 2013, 11:20 PM   #4318
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By Jayden
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More than 300 supertall projects on going in China.

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Old February 25th, 2013, 01:37 AM   #4319
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Great to see continued progress now that CNY is concluding. Just the sheer height and the strength of this building put it into my favorites list for sure.

Kyll, if this forum could +REP, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I also took some structural classes before I wrapped up my architectural studies so shooting down ahem, other comments, becomes both amusing and a headache. Let's just stick with the math and I'll leave it that I totally agree with your statements.

Anyway regarding PIFC, it's again just how amazing those super-columns are. The fact that they're encased in concrete too is going to make them stronger. Similar to the columns in Taipei 101 except it appears these are 2x as large / thick.

Speaking of the height and the fact of this building being in an earthquake-prone region of the world - but not seeing any indication of it in the structural diagrams released so far - there is no plan to incorporate any TMD into the Ping-An, is there? Just the sheer weight of the concrete in this building alone would appear to be it's own damper. I'm saying for example, compared to Citicorp aka Citigroup Tower in NYC which does have a TMD but is also all steel, and the Taipei 101 which is mostly steel.
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Old February 25th, 2013, 07:26 AM   #4320
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Feb 2013 - Shenzhen - FuTian CBD by Yann Le Berre on Flickr
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