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Old March 19th, 2013, 05:00 PM   #4501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TowerVerre:) View Post
Is there any chance that it will be cancelled because of that ? And is there any solution for this problem right now ? This really upsets me, because I just knew about this Shenzhen supertall cluster for 2 weeks and I hoped that Shenzhen will beat Dubai with supertalls really upsetting
Often towers u/c got cancelled when there isn't any money, here is money, so i don't see it get cancelled.
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Old March 19th, 2013, 05:42 PM   #4502
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Originally Posted by The London BestShard View Post
This building is Under Construction. It is temporary stopped just like 432 Park Avenue the other week. Please put this back to Under Construction thread.
It's not U/C, it's on hold. And probably longer than 432Park.
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Old March 19th, 2013, 05:42 PM   #4503
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The only positive news I see from this is that China is finally owning up to shoddy work ethics. It was their own media that alerted the world to this.

Feels really depressing to see the tower halted in any way
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Old March 19th, 2013, 06:02 PM   #4504
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How did they find out about this? How is that possible that Thornton Tomasetti didn't alert about this before?
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Old March 19th, 2013, 06:11 PM   #4505
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If a project as high profile as this could be affected by such serious construction flaws, it makes a person wonder about the safety of other buildings in China.
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Old March 19th, 2013, 06:17 PM   #4506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepblue01 View Post
The only positive news I see from this is that China is finally owning up to shoddy work ethics. It was their own media that alerted the world to this.

Feels really depressing to see the tower halted in any way
With all the concrete being used around the country, China cannot afford to have sub part concrete especially with high speed rail lines. I'm surprised that things like this happen when people are usually executed for matters like this, at least from what I've read, people are executed. I wouldn't want to be executed.
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Old March 19th, 2013, 06:35 PM   #4507
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I can't believe what's going here!
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Old March 19th, 2013, 06:58 PM   #4508
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From the report it sounds like it is a Shenzen wide thing not specific to the building. I guess the concrete companies in Shenzen may be the real issue.
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Old March 19th, 2013, 07:56 PM   #4509
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I hope they'll find out how it really is in the next days.
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Old March 19th, 2013, 08:33 PM   #4510
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Well let's keep in mind here, South Korea and Singapore both had shoddy inspection on they're infrastructure. That changed for both countries when major building disaster occurred due to shoddy construction and practices; the Sampoong Department Store collapse in Seoul, and Hotel New World in Singapore.

To me this seems to be a common problem in the Eastern World when it comes to having a sort of construction boom for the first time -at least I think-, they tend to cut corners more willingly.
Let's keep in mind that Chinese construction has and is known to be subpar in many cities and has been for 10+ years.

I live here, I see them working and the results and it needs to improve.
I used to work with concrete back in The West and what they do here is gutter crete, the worst of the worst on sub-8 storey structures. Misaligned supports, cracks, efflorescence, not giving proper time to cure and crystallise - everything.

There have already been collapses of structures and that has not changed things yet.

So I am not as forgiving. They knew the issues, they HAVE KNOWN the issues, and still the issues persist.

Until something truly horrific occurs, such as the collapse of a SuperTall, nothing will change.
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Old March 19th, 2013, 08:46 PM   #4511
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True. If the concrete is off spec, they may also choose to reinforce it by adding an extra layer aroudn the core (happened here in my city once), but that is just speculation.
I am no CE but what I know about SuperColumns and the method for building this tower, reinforcement will not suffice.

Those massive steel plates from an enormous 3X3 core with the concrete acting as a support and binding element. It's very very thick at the base and it is in contact with all that steel.

If it IS the sea sand then the pH and salinity levels are off, that will cause corrosion of the steel the concrete surrounds, and that means the building won't stay up.
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Old March 19th, 2013, 10:12 PM   #4512
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This is really disappointing -- easily one of my favorite designs worldwide, and a tower I was very excited to see rise.

What do we know about the financing for this tower? If they're forced to demolish the core and start over, is that a cost that the financiers can eat? I assume that there's enough money sunk into this project that even at the great cost of starting over with fresh materials, it would still be more beneficial to get it done than to scrap it.

Anybody shed some light on that?
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Old March 19th, 2013, 10:14 PM   #4513
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I think the main question at this point should be when are we going to know the results of concrete samples? Any news in Chinese media on that?
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Old March 19th, 2013, 10:35 PM   #4514
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Yeah, if the concrete samples fine we can move on and upwards with this tower. If this were my project I would have the inspectors/scientists/whoever out there as soon as possible to check the integrity of the concrete. I would want no more than a weeks delay for this to happen.

Interestingly enough I was more worried about concrete integrity on the high speed rail lines. Never really imagined this would apply to a prestigious supertall.

[IMG]http://i49.************/e8nzi0.jpg[/IMG]
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Old March 19th, 2013, 10:47 PM   #4515
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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...d-scandal.html

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/chin...ld-365201.html
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Old March 19th, 2013, 11:57 PM   #4516
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That looks like good news.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 12:28 AM   #4517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post


Yeah, if the concrete samples fine we can move on and upwards with this tower. If this were my project I would have the inspectors/scientists/whoever out there as soon as possible to check the integrity of the concrete. I would want no more than a weeks delay for this to happen.

Interestingly enough I was more worried about concrete integrity on the high speed rail lines. Never really imagined this would apply to a prestigious supertall.

[IMG]http://i49.************/e8nzi0.jpg[/IMG]
You can easily see that the concrete on that building was of high quality. It's still in one piece! Just the foundations were bad.
I doubt the concrete is as bad on htis tower as they make it seem...
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Old March 20th, 2013, 01:10 AM   #4518
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looks so much better with a spire
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Old March 20th, 2013, 01:17 AM   #4519
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I really wonder what the concrete supplier were thinking. "Let's sell them cheaper concrete to make more profit!". At what point did they think they were going to get away with it? Sooner or later, they were bound to have been busted. Either in a routine control, or during an eventual post-collapse investigation. Once the concrete was found to be faulty, the paperwork would lead directly to the perpetrators.

Though, I doubt dubious concrete would ever make the tower collapse. Before it got to that point, there would be visible cracks, which upon inspection would get the entire tower shut down and evacuated, and then probably reinforced so it would stand upright while being dismantled. Given how huge this building is, this stage of construction is still relatively early, so it could have been a lot worse. Imagine if it was revealed after it had broken the supertall barrier...
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Old March 20th, 2013, 01:50 AM   #4520
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This sort of stuff isn't isolated to 'non-western' countries. I watched a documentary about the construction of the Brooklyn Bridge in New York, and some of the steel used in the main cables was shoddy quality, so they had to add some extra wires to make sure it was strong enough.
Also, here in Christchurch, NZ, the CTV building was not designed properly, which resulted in it completely collapsing and killing 115 people in the 22/2/2011 earthquake.
.
I hope Ping An isn't affected too much, and they can continue construction soon.
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