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Old March 20th, 2013, 02:17 AM   #4521
skyridgeline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
How did they find out about this? How is that possible that Thornton Tomasetti didn't alert about this before?
A CCTV report, possibly from a 'secret' source.

I suspect CCTV's market share in Shenzhen is non-existence.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 02:52 AM   #4522
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This sort of stuff isn't isolated to 'non-western' countries. I watched a documentary about the construction of the Brooklyn Bridge in New York, and some of the steel used in the main cables was shoddy quality, so they had to add some extra wires to make sure it was strong enough.
Also, here in Christchurch, NZ, the CTV building was not designed properly, which resulted in it completely collapsing and killing 115 people in the 22/2/2011 earthquake.
.
I hope Ping An isn't affected too much, and they can continue construction soon.
Was the Brooklyn Bridge built in the 21st century? Was it even built in the 20th century? And why make this a comparison between the west and the non-west? This incident had nothing to do with any country but China and thus the discussion of countries in relation to this project should be limited only to China.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 02:58 AM   #4523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeLogical View Post
Was the Brooklyn Bridge built in the 21st century? Was it even built in the 20th century? And why make this a comparison between the west and the non-west? This incident had nothing to do with any country but China and thus the discussion of countries in relation to this project should be limited only to China.
oh but of course they have to bring the usa into the conversation lol
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Old March 20th, 2013, 03:24 AM   #4524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeLogical View Post
Was the Brooklyn Bridge built in the 21st century? Was it even built in the 20th century? And why make this a comparison between the west and the non-west? This incident had nothing to do with any country but China and thus the discussion of countries in relation to this project should be limited only to China.
I was more relating it to an earlier comment about buildings in Singapore and South Korea.
I probably shouldn't have included the "non-western" bit, sorry.
My point was supposed to be that no matter where you are in the world, there will be some companies that cut corners to make a bit of extra cash even though it could result in the deaths of many people.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 05:35 AM   #4525
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It is temporarily on hold but i wish the construction halted or even if it starts i hope it will rise <400m. China is taking it way too high with the most supertalls.
If only my wish came true...
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Old March 20th, 2013, 05:41 AM   #4526
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Bloomberg had a report about this yesterday :

China’s Tallest Tower Builder Assures Quality Amid Sand Scandal

China State Construction Engineering Corp. (601668), which is building the country’s tallest tower, said materials used in all its projects meet quality standard as the southern city of Shenzhen conducted inspections on builders.

Samples from buildings, including the 660-meter Ping An Finance Center due to be completed in 2015, were tested, according to Shenzhen’s Housing and Construction Bureau. The industrywide inspection in the city last week followed a China Central Television newscast on March 14 that investigated the use of substandard concrete by some developers in Shenzhen that used low-quality sea sand instead of river sand.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 06:24 AM   #4527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeLogical View Post
Was the Brooklyn Bridge built in the 21st century? Was it even built in the 20th century? And why make this a comparison between the west and the non-west? This incident had nothing to do with any country but China and thus the discussion of countries in relation to this project should be limited only to China.
What incident? Is CCTV a building code expert?

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oh but of course they have to bring the usa into the conversation lol
Less and less as time passes.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 06:45 AM   #4528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyridgeline View Post
What incident? Is CCTV a building code expert?



Less and less as time passes.
You dont need to be an expert to know that sea sand is a poor component choice for concrete. You simply need a decent high school education.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 07:03 AM   #4529
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You dont need to be an expert to know that sea sand is a poor component choice for concrete. You simply need a decent high school education.
Actually, no education is needed - just some sophistication. Sea sand is bad in certain applications. But the accusation?
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Old March 20th, 2013, 07:07 AM   #4530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyridgeline View Post
Actually, no education is needed - just some sophistication. Sea sand is bad in certain applications. But the accusation?
If a business entity utilizes sea sand in the manufacture of concrete, then the entity is incompetent and any structure utilizing said concrete is not safe for habitation. That is not an accusation. It is a fact. Why are you incapable of understanding that?
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Old March 20th, 2013, 07:16 AM   #4531
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If a business entity utilizes sea sand in the manufacture of concrete, then the entity is incompetent and any structure utilizing said concrete is not safe for habitation. That is not an accusation. It is a fact. Why are you incapable of understanding that?
You're capable of assumption. You know what they did with the sea sands (assuming it's sea sand !) ?
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Old March 20th, 2013, 07:30 AM   #4532
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Originally Posted by Atmosphere View Post
According to wiki, the Sampoong Department Store collapsed because the owner had removed some pillars to make way for escalators to make it a warehouse. When the engineer told him that it would be too dangerous he was fired Even when the first cracks started to appear he didn't close the building
Well, actually that was only part of the story XD. They also made the pillars 60% they're original size, which means they had to deal with a lot more weight. Also, they added a fifth floor which was originally designed to be a skating rink, but the owner changed plans midway through construction to make it full of restaurants instead. Finally there's the fact they installed very large air conditioners on the roof, which means the department store had a load that was basically 4 times the design limit.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 10:15 AM   #4533
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Quote:
Bureau denies sea sand rumor

A SCREEN shot of the city’s housing and construction bureau’s official website that lists 48 buildings confirmed of using sea sand in construction has drawn widespread attention online, but the bureau is now saying it never published such a list, Southern Metropolis Daily reported yesterday.
China Central Television reported last week that many buildings in Shenzhen were suspected of using unqualified sea sand, which contains excessive amounts of chorine ions that can erode concrete and steel supports in buildings. Since then, any online posts about the illegal use of sea sand have drawn many hits and been frequently reposted.
A screen shot posted online Monday showed the results of the city’s sea sand investigation and has been reposted by many people. The screen shot has the city’s housing and construction bureau’s official website as its background and claims that 48 residential projects under construction have been using sea sand and were ordered to stop all work.
Most of the 48 projects on the list are in Longhua New Area, Longgang District or Bao’an District.
Soon after the screen shot was posted, the housing and construction bureau responded on its official microblog. The bureau published a post at about 10:30 a.m. Monday that claimed it had never published such a list.
But after netizens continued asking whether the screen shot was real, the bureau posted a statement at 11:40 a.m. that said the screen shot was purely rumor and suggested netizens should not be cheated so easily.
The bureau then published a notice Monday afternoon that said someone had illegally used the bureau’s website as a background and falsely created the screen shot in the bureau’s name. Bureau officials said they had reported the case to police and those involved would be punished.
A Southern Metropolis Daily reporter visited the construction sites of some projects in Longhua that were listed on the screen shot and found that none of them had stopped work as they were allegedly ordered to do.
Sales staff for those projects told local Chinese-language media that the housing and construction bureau had never asked them to stop their work.
The bureau said it would publish inspection results through news media and on its official website as soon as they’re available. (Zhang Yang)


Sourec: http://szdaily.sznews.com/html/2013-...nt_2412518.htm
On site there is still no movement. Passed by the last two days and haven't seen a human soul.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 12:15 PM   #4534
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Well? Actual scandal or just junk journalism?
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Old March 20th, 2013, 12:19 PM   #4535
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By the way, I was told SZ gov is basically banning non SZ developers since all the lands are being given to local developers lately (you can see almost no project being developed by non SZ companies). A kind of revenge?
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Old March 20th, 2013, 01:20 PM   #4536
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http://news.xinhuanet.com/finance/20..._124482233.htm
针对有关平安金融中心建设的报道,中国平安集团发表声明称,所谓的减值处理是不属实的,平安金融中心项目用砂抽检均符合国家标准。以下为声明全文:

我们接到有关媒体关于平安金融中心建设的一些询问,据我们了解,所谓的减值处理是不属实的。我们非常重视平安金融中心项目的工程质量,对该项目一直履行严格的质量检查制度。事件发生后,公司已提请总包商再次复查确认工程混凝土用砂的来源,同时立即核查了该项目的检测纪录,涉及工程混凝土用砂的7次抽查检测报告显示砂中氯离子含量均符合国家标准。目前,公司正积极配合市政府的调查,相信市政府会尽快公布调查结果。

Great news. According to xinhua.net, one of the most reliable chinese source, Ping'an said that it has tested its concrete used to build the building and all the samples have passed the test. Work should be starting very very soon.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 01:37 PM   #4537
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Sounds like good news.

But I wonder if there are other skyscapers, which may be completed, built with bad concrete...
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Old March 20th, 2013, 01:37 PM   #4538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta1088 View Post
http://news.xinhuanet.com/finance/20..._124482233.htm
针对有关平安金融中心建设的报道,中国平安集团发表声明称,所谓的减值处理是不属实的,平安金融中心项目用砂抽检均符合国家标准。以下为声明全文:

我们接到有关媒体关于平安金融中心建设的一些询问,据我们了解,所谓的减值处理是不属实的。我们非常重视平安金融中心项目的工程质量,对该项目一直履行严格的质量检查制度。事件发生后,公司已提请总包商再次复查确认工程混凝土用砂的来源,同时立即核查了该项目的检测纪录,涉及工程混凝土用砂的7次抽查检测报告显示砂中氯离子含量均符合国家标准。目前,公司正积极配合市政府的调查,相信市政府会尽快公布调查结果。

Great news. According to xinhua.net, one of the most reliable chinese source, Ping'an said that it has tested its concrete used to build the building and all the samples have passed the test. Work should be starting very very soon.
Great!

What about the other construction in the city?
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Old March 20th, 2013, 01:46 PM   #4539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta1088 View Post
http://news.xinhuanet.com/finance/20..._124482233.htm
针对有关平安金融中心建设的报道,中国平安集团发表声明称,所谓的减值处理是不属实的,平安金融中心项目用砂抽检均符合国家标准。以下为声明全文:

我们接到有关媒体关于平安金融中心建设的一些询问,据我们了解,所谓的减值处理是不属实的。我们非常重视平安金融中心项目的工程质量,对该项目一直履行严格的质量检查制度。事件发生后,公司已提请总包商再次复查确认工程混凝土用砂的来源,同时立即核查了该项目的检测纪录,涉及工程混凝土用砂的7次抽查检测报告显示砂中氯离子含量均符合国家标准。目前,公司正积极配合市政府的调查,相信市政府会尽快公布调查结果。

Great news. According to xinhua.net, one of the most reliable chinese source, Ping'an said that it has tested its concrete used to build the building and all the samples have passed the test. Work should be starting very very soon.
I think the article only means that PingAn defends itself by telling the journalists that they were always testing their concrete before pouring it. I don't think it's the result of the official testing. But I'm not sure.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 02:08 PM   #4540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YannSZ View Post
I think the article only means that PingAn defends itself by telling the journalists that they were always testing their concrete before pouring it. I don't think it's the result of the official testing. But I'm not sure.
Well according to them, from the sentence "公司已提请总包商再次复查确认工程混凝土用砂的来源,同时立即核查了该项目的检测纪录,涉及工程混凝土用砂的7次抽查检测报告显示砂中氯离子含量均符合国家标准。" it shows that they have told the construction company to relook into the testings and further retestings show that all of them passed the test too. Of course it may not be the official testings but it is nonetheless great news.
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