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Old May 29th, 2011, 04:41 AM   #1701
aquaticko
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I don't think that anyone would argue that the Chicago Spire was a beautiful design, but there seems to be more against Ping'an's design than I'd have expected. It's very traditional, sure, but I think that works on a building this size. Being similarly tall, I know I don't need to wear crazy patterns and colors to stick out, it comes naturally to us "skyscrapers".
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Old May 29th, 2011, 06:09 AM   #1702
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I've read not long time ago that Shenzhen wanted to raise it's seismic level of its high rises, it might be a reason too.
I personally really like the design of PAIFC, that's a question of personal taste.
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Old May 29th, 2011, 07:12 AM   #1703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
I don't think that anyone would argue that the Chicago Spire was a beautiful design, but there seems to be more against Ping'an's design than I'd have expected. It's very traditional, sure, but I think that works on a building this size. Being similarly tall, I know I don't need to wear crazy patterns and colors to stick out, it comes naturally to us "skyscrapers".
It's sad to say, as the design is right now, it is by far the worst mature supertall design in recent memory. This kind of design might be OK if it is some early concept candidate among many, but it's pretty shocking that someone actually chose this to be the final version. And it will be the most prominent element of the skyline, so you can't even avoid looking at it if you are anywhere in the metro area; and consider how it could have turned out, it is such a shame and waste.

It is a mixture of faux art-deco and some type of post-modern design with a dash of pompus abandon, and would look terribly out of place in the skyline. The architect doesn't seem to understand what makes an art deco design, or what makes a post-modern design appropriate for today's skyline; and pretty much takes the most inappropriate aspects of both forms.
  • The best of the post-modern designs weld multiple geometric or architectural forms together, and blend them effectively to create interesting visuals and illusions. Different parts, or different perspectives produce distinct visual effects that lead the viewer to closer inspection. That's what makes these forms so captivating to look at and study, allowing the viewer to find interesting new visuals each time. such as these examples:


  • Art deco designs, on the other hand, is certainly designed to express luxury through linear, elegant motifs;
    but at best, it conveys a strong sense of solemnity and gravitas, where long vertical forms are punctuated by strong horizontal lines, such as following:

    To best achieve these effects, these are often followed by timely setback on the profile:image hosted on flickr
    , well placed ornamentation: image hosted on flickr
    . And sometimes it is topped by a distinctive, and visually interesting, and symbol laden crown: . Thus expressing stately grandeur and strength when all of the elements come together:.

  • The current design of PAIFC has none of that. It uses a staid, monotonous, minimalist motif, along with the complete lack of horizontal breaks, and covered with gilded , looks plain cheap and contrived. It searches for some kind of guilded lavishness, and entirely lacks any imagination, devoid of any distinctiveness (essentially a simplified western architectural form), and contains zero innovation. The style comes something out of comic books, perhaps something you would imagine a 10 yr old kid sketching out as the place for the final battle in some superhero saga.


And considering this company is known for selecting designs that are really out of place, aesthetically repulsive, and anachronistic, such as:
.
It's no wonder how this also turned out. Each time I look at either one of the Ping'An financial centers, it just makes me want to cry.

Last edited by HardBall; May 29th, 2011 at 07:53 AM. Reason: added picture
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Old May 29th, 2011, 08:06 AM   #1704
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If it will look like this, I will like it. But a little while ago it was stated that there'd was a "cladding change." I'm assuming that means it will not be gold anymore.

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Old May 29th, 2011, 10:46 AM   #1705
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Maybe the design is not perfect, but still I am very glad that we finally get something different from some organic shaped full-glass bubble with no details, if the alternative would be something like Guangzhou IFC I would without doubt stay with the current design.
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Old May 29th, 2011, 02:29 PM   #1706
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Guangzhou IFC is one of my favourite buildings! I much prefer this Shenzhen PAIFC compared to the stupid Pingan building in Shanghai. Can't believe it was built in such a prominent place in the skyline ie. right next to the Pearl Tower. What makes it even worse is that tacky red logo...

It's a shame that they're not keeping the gold coloured cladding (is this for definite?) as I don't think it will look that good with grey/silver.
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Old May 29th, 2011, 03:04 PM   #1707
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i love the design.
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Old May 29th, 2011, 03:06 PM   #1708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djm160190 View Post
Guangzhou IFC is one of my favourite buildings!
Well, it's not mine. After all you can't argue with the fact that it's simply just a glass tube (a large one ). As for the cladding it will look like that:

image hosted on flickr


I think it will look great on the large scale, but until they install it on actual building we can't be sure how it will turn out for 100%.
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Old May 29th, 2011, 03:21 PM   #1709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardBall View Post
It's sad to say, as the design is right now, it is by far the worst mature supertall design in recent memory. This kind of design might be OK if it is some early concept candidate among many, but it's pretty shocking that someone actually chose this to be the final version. And it will be the most prominent element of the skyline, so you can't even avoid looking at it if you are anywhere in the metro area; and consider how it could have turned out, it is such a shame and waste.

It is a mixture of faux art-deco and some type of post-modern design with a dash of pompus abandon, and would look terribly out of place in the skyline. The architect doesn't seem to understand what makes an art deco design, or what makes a post-modern design appropriate for today's skyline; and pretty much takes the most inappropriate aspects of both forms.
One of the best argumentations I've ever seen on these forums.
Most people just say "I don't like this building, it's ugly", but you make it very clear why you think it's ugly. And I do agree with you.
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Old May 29th, 2011, 03:39 PM   #1710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YannSZ View Post
I don't see what type of machine could dig easily in a hole that is not so large. The crane hand can damage the walls of the pit. As it's not very usual to see this type of hole I am guessing that there are not really any existing digging machine that would be suitable for this size.
This type of machine could easily dig a hole that is not so large:

[IMG]http://i56.************/xlgl5d.jpg[/IMG]

What you need is an excavator with a telescopic arm and a clamshell bucket - the bucket opens in the centre, and the bucket can can be lowered directly downwards. The one pictured is a Hitachi Chamaleon 330LC, and it can dig down to a depth of 25.2m. So its not that such a machine does not exist, they absolutely do.
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Old May 29th, 2011, 04:13 PM   #1711
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Quote:
The current design of PAIFC has none of that. It uses a staid, monotonous, minimalist motif, along with the complete lack of horizontal breaks, and covered with gilded , looks plain cheap and contrived. It searches for some kind of guilded lavishness, and entirely lacks any imagination, devoid of any distinctiveness (essentially a simplified western architectural form), and contains zero innovation. The style comes something out of comic books, perhaps something you would imagine a 10 yr old kid sketching out as the place for the final battle in some superhero saga.
Now that you mention it, I think you've identified exactly the reasons that I like it. Frankly, to strike a balance somewhere between being overdesigned (a criticism you could lay on Shanghai Tower) and postmodern plainness (WTC1) is something I like. It's as if the designer looked up the definition of 'skyscraper' and submitted what he found. What's wrong with minimal traditionalist architecture? As I said before, I think it doesn't need much beyond it's size to be distinctive.

Then again, you seem to know much more about architecture than I do, so maybe I'm wrong.
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Old May 29th, 2011, 08:29 PM   #1712
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Hi all.

Hi Hardball.
I agree with King - well spoken point of view.
However, like Pat, Aquatico, and Dancing, I like the design.
While aesthetics are a matter of taste as Yann alluded to, I don't think this is 'the worst supertall design in recent memory' by any stretch.
Also, the construction methods are very interesting for this project.

I think it will make a great addition to the Shenzhen skyline.


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Old May 29th, 2011, 08:43 PM   #1713
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It does seem a likely candidate for a cancellation, though, even still. It has backburner recognition and backing, with ST being in the spotlight. All this in a rapidly changing country with an uncertain future.

I will like it only if it's pretty much exactly as shown in the gold render and is at least 2,000 feet.
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Old May 29th, 2011, 09:25 PM   #1714
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Gold is usually a bad choice IMO. It might look nice on renderings, but might not be the same in real life.
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Old May 29th, 2011, 09:37 PM   #1715
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Yeah, whatever finish is used might fade or oxidize or otherwise loose it's lustre quickly. Not to mention with the likely low maintenance it will get, and high pollution, it might not be a good idea.
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Old May 30th, 2011, 09:01 PM   #1716
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sorry to ask but are the two holes for both towers ,cos they look a little close together if they are ?
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Old May 30th, 2011, 09:08 PM   #1717
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I wonder when people will stop asking this

The left hole is for the mall, the lower tower will be constructed across the street left to the mall.
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Old May 31st, 2011, 10:02 AM   #1718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
I wonder when people will stop asking this

The left hole is for the mall, the lower tower will be constructed across the street left to the mall.
thanks i was wondering the same thing anyway but why do they need such a large foundation for a mall i thought it was for getting trucks cranes etc access to the first hole
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Old June 3rd, 2011, 08:05 PM   #1719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oriolus View Post
What you need is an excavator with a telescopic arm and a clamshell bucket - the bucket opens in the centre, and the bucket can can be lowered directly downwards. The one pictured is a Hitachi Chamaleon 330LC, and it can dig down to a depth of 25.2m. So its not that such a machine does not exist, they absolutely do.
Yup I've seen one of those in action. I think the reason behind the manual digging method is not the lack of machinery, but rather to avoid the interference of underground structures such as a subway line under construction.
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Old June 3rd, 2011, 08:22 PM   #1720
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Are you suggesting the subway line goes directly under the ping an tower foundation I really can't see what difference would that make if the line goes even next to the ping an site. Maybe it is all about precision? Apparently what they do is digging one layer of soil after another each time making another concrete ring, maybe that excavator would take to much soil to precisely take amount of soil to use this concrete rings forms. Or maybe this excavators would take too much space on the site, since they have to stand somewhere out of the hole. Or at last maybe simply this holes will be deeper than we expect (and also quite narrow for an excavator) , and simply this excavators arms are not long enough to operate in this circumstances? I can't know this but I can be pretty sure its not because they saving costs, since time is also one of the costs and if that would be possible to do it faster with machines, I'm pretty sure they would use them.
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