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Old September 5th, 2007, 08:57 PM   #21
liverpolitan
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I think Kings Dock is the secret weapon here - bringing thousands of new professional and business people to the city each year. Some will like it and consider it for short-listing when they are involved in finding new locations for their business or organisation. Liverpool suffers more than anywhere I can think of a gap between the perception (outside) and the reality of the city. It should be attracting more jobs, and I think misperceptions are a major obstacle.
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Old September 5th, 2007, 09:54 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by liverpolitan View Post
I think Kings Dock is the secret weapon here - bringing thousands of new professional and business people to the city each year. Some will like it and consider it for short-listing when they are involved in finding new locations for their business or organisation. Liverpool suffers more than anywhere I can think of a gap between the perception (outside) and the reality of the city. It should be attracting more jobs, and I think misperceptions are a major obstacle.
Spot on - it will make it a hell of a lot harder for rival bidders for jobs to use their media machine to put the boot in on Liverpool.
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Old September 5th, 2007, 10:25 PM   #23
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all sounds a bit depressing really.... i live in liverpool and work in leeds... i would love to find a job that would pay me the equivalent wage here but it just isn't here. I am a graduate of this city.... but i fear as time goes on and the opportunities remain as limited as they are... that my days here will be numbered and i will become another statistic of a well educated person who has left the city to find better prospects!

I know how you feel. I am one of the few people of my group of freinds who have not moved out ...... most have left Liverpool, simply to find work, not because they want to.

The current status and city statistics which seem to damn us are entirely predictable result of the unprecedented decline in the city's economy, some of it natural, some of it political strategy.

When 50% of an affluent city's population takes flight, it is not surprising that on average the poorest, sickest, least educated etc etc are left behind.

As liverpolitan says, the Kings Dock and city centre generally is our key, but we need to hit the ground running. That is a concern because the level of service provision may not be high enough.

As Evertonian said:

Customer services in this city are particularly bad as well. You have a high proportion of the population unable to speak properly and unable to relate to customers or clients.

Poor manners, inpoliteness, poor listening skills and awful inclarity in the voice is a bad problem here.


That may be a big hurdle to overcome as other cities have 10 years head start in customer services relating to large Arena type events etc.
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Old September 5th, 2007, 10:38 PM   #24
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I know how you feel. I am one of the few people of my group of freinds who have not moved out ...... most have left Liverpool, simply to find work, not because they want to.

The current status and city statistics which seem to damn us are entirely predictable result of the unprecedented decline in the city's economy, some of it natural, some of it political strategy.

When 50% of an affluent city's population takes flight, it is not surprising that on average the poorest, sickest, least educated etc etc are left behind.

As liverpolitan says, the Kings Dock and city centre generally is our key, but we need to hit the ground running. That is a concern because the level of service provision may not be high enough.

As Evertonian said:

Customer services in this city are particularly bad as well. You have a high proportion of the population unable to speak properly and unable to relate to customers or clients.

Poor manners, inpoliteness, poor listening skills and awful inclarity in the voice is a bad problem here.


That may be a big hurdle to overcome as other cities have 10 years head start in customer services relating to large Arena type events etc.
All the stats suggest that Liverpool's economy is growing and is the economic driver for the region.

I don't think things are quite as bleak as painted on this thread! As for the nonsense about a high proportion of people being unable to speak properly.

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Old September 5th, 2007, 11:18 PM   #25
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All the stats suggest that Liverpool's economy is growing and is the economic driver for the region.

I don't think things are quite as bleak as painted on this thread! As for the nonsense about a high proportion of people being unable to speak properly.

I don't buy that accent/manners thing either. The call centre sector has been a major growth area in Liverpool in recent years,QVC and others. Also i don't think it's the case of a skills shortage,particularly pertaining to the sector that has seen massive growth nationally and where Liverpool has failed abysmally,the finance sector.Liverpool has historically suffered from a skills shortage but mainly in the skilled manual sector(still does) employment in the professions in Liverpool have always largely been occupied by people in the city region,Wirral/Sefton and i'd say at the moment there's a surplus in this sector,so the potential workforce is here. The reason put forward by the local investement agencies in the failure to attract large scale employment in the finance sector was lack of Grade A office space. This is partially true if comparing with Manchester or Leeds city centres but boroughs like Trafford have seen huge increases in employment in this sector.Liverpool should've been at advantage attracting these jobs because of it's history as a finance centre in the past. A more realistic appraisal would be the investment agencies were left standing in the blocks and are only now getting their act together.
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Old September 5th, 2007, 11:25 PM   #26
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[Customer services in this city are particularly bad as well. You have a high proportion of the population unable to speak properly and unable to relate to customers or clients.

Poor manners, inpoliteness, poor listening skills and awful inclarity in the voice is a bad problem here.

That may be a big hurdle to overcome as other cities have 10 years head start in customer services relating to large Arena type events etc. ]

is this a f------g wind up
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Old September 6th, 2007, 12:46 AM   #27
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call centres are the modern day work house, under paid, over worked and you can be sacked for looking at your boss in the wrong way as it goes against corporate behaviours each member of staff has to abide by. I have worked in two, on in Manchester for 2 years through uni part 1 and the other this year at the sandcastle for more than, and they are HELL HOLES over run with thick people paid too much and given the power to make their staff lives hell (there its off my chest now)

We need to encourage businesses to re-locate from outside, but for the well being of Liverpool as a society NO MORE CALL CENTRES! they really are an eroding place to work in and they shed jobs every 5 mins in favour of india in so called " re structuring" and "needs of the business"

bollocks to them, thank god im in an architects now, otherwise i would have killed myself.



We need powerful politics in Liverpool, clearer vision and a ruthless approach to getting new business in. Go for the juguler, f**k our neighbouring cities, they dont care about us when they reel it in....

we need to be as cut throat as business is and become pro-business, which, evidently we still appear to not be.
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Old September 6th, 2007, 12:51 AM   #28
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call centres are the modern day work house, under paid, over worked and you can be sacked for looking at your boss in the wrong way as it goes against corporate behaviours each member of staff has to abide by. I have worked in two, on in Manchester for 2 years through uni part 1 and the other this year at the sandcastle for more than, and they are HELL HOLES over run with thick people paid too much and given the power to make their staff lives hell (there its off my chest now)

We need to encourage businesses to re-locate from outside, but for the well being of Liverpool as a society NO MORE CALL CENTRES! they really are an eroding place to work in and they shed jobs every 5 mins in favour of india in so called " re structuring" and "needs of the business"

bollocks to them, thank god im in an architects now, otherwise i would have killed myself.



We need powerful politics in Liverpool, clearer vision and a ruthless approach to getting new business in. Go for the juguler, f**k our neighbouring cities, they dont care about us when they reel it in....

we need to be as cut throat as business is and become pro-business, which, evidently we still appear to not be.
Re:call centres,i agree SY. The point i was making was the accent/telephone manner wasn't seen as a handicap.
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Old September 6th, 2007, 11:33 AM   #29
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[Customer services in this city are particularly bad as well. You have a high proportion of the population unable to speak properly and unable to relate to customers or clients.

Poor manners, inpoliteness, poor listening skills and awful inclarity in the voice is a bad problem here.

That may be a big hurdle to overcome as other cities have 10 years head start in customer services relating to large Arena type events etc. ]

is this a f------g wind up

Absolutely not!

I think Evertonian's remarks overstep the mark on re-reading them, but as the city gears up to be CoC 2008 with a new shopping centre and major arena, a big worry is that we have to hit the ground running but lack skills in these service areas.

The arena has to attract sell-out crowds and overnight stays in hotels etc. right from day one. And with the busiest arena in Europe 35 miles away, with 10 years head start on us, then how can you say lack of experience is not a concern service-wise?
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Old September 6th, 2007, 11:36 AM   #30
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Re:call centres,i agree SY. The point i was making was the accent/telephone manner wasn't seen as a handicap.
Several surveys would suggest otherwise..........

http://www.financetech.com/news/wall...cleID=18402776

Unfortunately, many peoples' preconceptions start as soon as they hear a Liverpool accent.
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Old September 6th, 2007, 04:37 PM   #31
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Absolutely not!

I think Evertonian's remarks overstep the mark on re-reading them, but as the city gears up to be CoC 2008 with a new shopping centre and major arena, a big worry is that we have to hit the ground running but lack skills in these service areas.

The arena has to attract sell-out crowds and overnight stays in hotels etc. right from day one. And with the busiest arena in Europe 35 miles away, with 10 years head start on us, then how can you say lack of experience is not a concern service-wise?
the skills will come, they are here anyway. And did anyone say this when Manchester MEN was going up (or the nynex as it was then known) they just got on with it.

I cant imagine the MEN being the busiest in Europe either once the ACC opens, as with the Airport etc etc, the MEN will no longer be serving two cities for concert events.
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Old September 6th, 2007, 04:56 PM   #32
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Listen....studies have shown that people relate very well to scousers on the phone and consider the scouse accent friendly and informal, hence a large reason why many firms locate their call centres here.

The accent is not in question.

I am talking about a high proportion of school leavers who are unable to articulate, spell or speak properly. If people are denying this then they are living in a dreamworld and need to open their ears and eyes....everyone from the CBI to leading business men and women in this country are telling us this is the case. The statistics speak for themselves....as do the courses in adult literacy and mathematics that have had to be put on to deal with it.

Basic maths and english are in decline and we all know there are people in this city barely capable of speaking a sentance eligably.

Again....NOT an attack on scouse or an attack on the population of my home city. Simply an acknowledgement that things aren't as they should be.


Absolutely no point having an international cruise line terminal and arena if the staff do not have the customer care philosophy and consider their jobs to be "shite".

The americans do this well....we don't, especially in liverpool in my opinion. People are downright rude in a lot of cases. People need customer care training that emphasises pride in Liverpool and the impression we're trying to give off of the place.

I've lost count of examples of when i've recieved terrible customer service in this town.
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Old September 6th, 2007, 04:59 PM   #33
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i don't know but i was kind of hoping that one of you would have inside knowledge on some companies wanting to invest in the city.... alas not....
i don't believe that any of you addressed the point about the head of Liverpool Vision saying we need to do more to attract these companies .... surely thats partly his job??
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Old September 6th, 2007, 05:05 PM   #34
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I don't believe any of these unelected quangos and agencies will bring anything to Livepool.

I'd get rid of them all and have a Liverpool cabinet with elected ministers accountable and responsible for departments such as "inward investment" or "business".
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Old September 6th, 2007, 05:08 PM   #35
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i don't know but i was kind of hoping that one of you would have inside knowledge on some companies wanting to invest in the city.... alas not....
i don't believe that any of you addressed the point about the head of Liverpool Vision saying we need to do more to attract these companies .... surely thats partly his job??
Actually, it's not. Liverpool Vision is an urban regeneration company. As far as inward investment goes, LV's job is facilitate the creation of space firms can move into. After a slow start, in recent years, LV has done this, insofar as lots of new office space is now being built. They were involved in St Pauls Square for example.

It's TMP who has the job of selling the city and bringing in investment.
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Old September 6th, 2007, 05:45 PM   #36
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An interesting debate with many good view points. I think on the whole things are improving. In order to attract quality business to the city we have to be 'attractive' that is now happening, fundamentals like decent office space have completed only in the last 12 months or so without which you don't get to first base with major companies. But along with this the city has got to look good and have the right feel. We are lining up all these things now and it looks pretty positive for the next few years. Don't think there is a problem with talent, many feel wasted in crap jobs I took the decision many years ago to create my own living because there simply wasn't anything out there without moving away. I hope that is about to change.
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Old September 6th, 2007, 05:51 PM   #37
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Thanx Awayo but Liverpool Vision whilst not the direct marketing machine have a role to play... i acknowledge that they are not the sles people and foot soldiers but in that case the The Mersey partnership has failed.... its done a job in promoting the city as a tourist destination but failed in bringing much in the way of tangible business... i stand to be corrected. (i knew they should have given me that job 4 years ago)
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Old September 6th, 2007, 09:35 PM   #38
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I agree customer service in Liverpool isn't great, it's sometimes quite poor in the city centre shops, and not very good in the hotels. There is a certain disinclination to serve, a lack of formal manners and respect. Too much gum chewing, chatting. Too quick to go onto first name terms. I don't mind it, personally, I hate overly mannered service, but I can see some not liking it. Would be very interested how Americans react, especially those who are used to service in London.
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Old September 6th, 2007, 09:50 PM   #39
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I agree customer service in Liverpool isn't great, it's sometimes quite poor in the city centre shops, and not very good in the hotels. There is a certain disinclination to serve, a lack of formal manners and respect. Too much gum chewing, chatting. Too quick to go onto first name terms. I don't mind it, personally, I hate overly mannered service, but I can see some not liking it. Would be very interested how Americans react, especially those who are used to service in London.

I think some of the reason behind this is the low wages paid, so it is hard to get the right, suitable people for the job, who want to work hard and move up in the sector. You only have to have watched the Adelphi hotel T.V. documentary, to see the attitude of the new recruits, who were only interested in the wages, it was a job, probably the only one they could get with little or no exams passed.
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Old September 6th, 2007, 09:57 PM   #40
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The thing about accents/people unable to articulate a sentence is hardly a Liverpool-only 'problem'. I think the notion that a Scouse accent is perceived to be 'trouble' is out of date. Look at Newcastle - a thick Geordie accent is incomprehensible, but that doesnt stop Orange (a massive telecommunications company) operating a major call centre from there.

I was educated at a Liverpool University, I am employed by a large company based in Liverpool. The industry is hugely London-dominated. However, the department of the company I work in has experienced rapid growth over the past few years, inparticular over the last year. It employs people from all over the UK with well-paid, industry-competetive careers. The executive level are all locals. Professionals from equivalent jobs in London have been attracted to work in this company in Liverpool. This is an example of a company that is benefitting directly from the boom currently being experienced in Liverpool. In turn, this company is able to employ skilled, educated, professional people from the Merseyside region and compete nationally, whilst also delivering products to an international customer base.

This certainly isnt/wont be a one off. I am starting to agree with those posters who have suggested the major problem is the lack of top class office space. Build it and they will come - it just wont happen over night.

Also, if Peel are to be taken seriously with their LW and WW projects, then this is a major company that is willing to invest billions in Liverpool and the wider area. Major banking and insurance institutions will be attracted over the next few years as this renaissance continues to snowball. It just wont happen after a few towers have been completed. Give it time - it will happen.
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