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Old October 11th, 2007, 09:21 PM   #101
liverpolitan
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I will try to restrain myself. I run a business that depends very heavily on the postal system. These strikes are creating utter chaos and will ultimately threaten the jobs of some of the local people who work for me.

I've posted on this thread because one thing Liverpool needs to sort out if it is to attract more business is it's image as work-shy and strike prone. All of yesterday I heard on national TV and radio how Liverpool's postal workers had launched wildfire strikes whilst the vast majority of the rest of the country got back to normal. Unfortunately this is typical of Liverpool.

What would the head of a company contemplating relocating to Liverpool think of that I wonder? I've been in Liverpool for 9 years but it even makes me think about whether this is the right place for me to be running a post dependent business.

There is a hard core of anti-work sentiment here, a legacy of the 70's and 80's, that needs to be eradicated. Personally I would fire all the postal workers who went on unofficial strike and hire people who want to do the job.
But there have also been wildcat strikes in Scotland and in London. London is Europe's business growth hotspot. It reminds me of the 1980s riots - some L8s may feel a bit pissed off at the comparison, but in truth their riot wasn't as big or vicious as London's - and London's were north and south of the river, not just in one small area. Liverpool's just got covered more because it was reported by a hostile (largely Manchester-based) media.

I sense the BBC have actually be fair over this postal strike, at least the tiny bits of their corerage I have seen have been.

A far more worrying industrial relations situation is at LJLA, I really hope that gets sorted and staff there don't blow it. It's loss making, but generating thousands of well paid jobs in the region, and a strike would be catrastrophic. No-one will have any sympathy at all for those people if they do strike, at least I hope not.

Edited: sorry to hear about this cityofgold, I agree with you that they should be sacked, it's not acceptable to damage the livelihoods of others in this way. They are traitors to their region.
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Old October 11th, 2007, 11:59 PM   #102
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Yeah your right sack them all.
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Old October 12th, 2007, 11:27 AM   #103
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You may have been being sarcastic but I wasn't. Looks like no post for more than 2 weeks in Liverpool. Sack them all!

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Old October 12th, 2007, 11:31 AM   #104
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That means more Paulie D on the forums during sociable hours, I suppose. I'm not sure what else good would come out of it, however.
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Old October 12th, 2007, 11:50 AM   #105
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You're right there Awayo,COG I couldn't care less if I was sacked and neither could the majority of the others either.Anyone who thinks that getting up at 4am walking around the streets in all weathers being attacked and bitten by dogs and abused and attacked by members of the public is a good job then try doing it.Most people are on tax credits aswell,many on deliveries after doing all of that then have to go out and do a second job,mainly painting and decorating or on the taxis,you try that after doing all of the stuff mentioned above after a 4am wake up call and ask yourself this,do you think they really care because I can tell you the answers no.Good luck with your mail because the legitimate strikes start again on Monday.I wont cross a picket line ever,pure and simple,I have my principles.
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Old October 12th, 2007, 12:34 PM   #106
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It strikes me that the Royal Mail management is trying for a "demonstration war" type of victory like what happened to the miners.

They are being unreasonable with the full knowledge that the postal workers will be pushed into a position where they strike and are soundly beaten. The government seems happy with this plan.

The upshot (and the ultimate plan, it seems) is that the Mail as we've known it for all of our lives is on its way out. You don't have to be a leftwing extremist to recognise that not everything is best provided by free market competition. The Mail is (or was) a service - not everything it does can be provided profitably. So, yeah, throw it open to competition, get rid of the postal workers previously half-decent pay and conditions so that it can compete head-to-head with the buttons-paying private competitors. What will you end up with then? Competition (and, maybe, lower prices) for profitable b2b mail services, yes.

However, all of the other services that the Mail/GPO has provided in the past - collection boxes and POs in the tiniest village and all outlying estates, ie, pick up and delivery from every single location in the UK to every location in the country - services that are in the national public interest and can never survive in a commercial free for all, will go and go forever.

Most people accept that the economy is likely to be more successful with a far greater proportion of industrial activity in the private sector, compared to the situtuation in the 60s and 70s. In retrospect a lot of Thatcher's privatisations can be viewed to be a success.

However, the Thatcherites became so wedding to their ideology of private=good/public=bad that they proceeded to carry on privatising things that were best left in the public sector such as the railways. We now have a "Labour" government itself weirdly fixed on the same ideology that it is also desperate to privatise public services that clearly are not sensibly provided on commercial basis.

So, a 300 year old service (founded by that commie Charles II) stupidly destroyed forever for reasons of market liberal, faith-based ideology. In ten years time, City firms will have a few choices in sending out their mail, to be delivered by minimum-wage immigrants. However, if an old lady in Speke with mobility difficulties wants to send a birthday card to her grandson, she'll need to pay 30 quid to get it picked up by UPS or get a bus/taxi into town (or Warrington, more likely!) where the nearest drop off box might be. People living in Uist will have to catch ferry and then a train to Glasgow.

Bag of shite.

Last edited by Awayo; October 12th, 2007 at 12:46 PM.
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Old October 12th, 2007, 01:01 PM   #107
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And that's basically that,you're spot on Awayo.

They always goad Liverpool to get this reaction,imagine going into work to be told your hours have changed as of now without prior notice,imagine the problems that may cause the individual who normally picks up their kids from school straight after work,well this happened.The changes were meant to be implemented Nationally on the 22nd of October so why did they do this if it wasn't to get a reation? All of the posties are saying is we'll abide by any decisions that are made after the current talks are agreed between the management and the unions,is that too much to ask? Incidentally to all of the people with the sack them mentality agree that the managers should be sacked too,because they also balloted for strike action recently? Incidentally nothing came of it because Royal Mail gave into every demand within a week of them suggesting it,I'm past caring because Royal Mail wont be part of my future.
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Old October 12th, 2007, 01:23 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Paul D View Post
You're right there Awayo,COG I couldn't care less if I was sacked and neither could the majority of the others either.Anyone who thinks that getting up at 4am walking around the streets in all weathers being attacked and bitten by dogs and abused and attacked by members of the public is a good job then try doing it.Most people are on tax credits aswell,many on deliveries after doing all of that then have to go out and do a second job,mainly painting and decorating or on the taxis,you try that after doing all of the stuff mentioned above after a 4am wake up call and ask yourself this,do you think they really care because I can tell you the answers no.Good luck with your mail because the legitimate strikes start again on Monday.I wont cross a picket line ever,pure and simple,I have my principles.
Actually, that reminds me of a bit of work i did for a few nights in about 1992 during University. We (mostly uni students) were bussed from the Addeco agency on North John Street to Warrington (ex U.S. airbase hangars), to sort mail bags during the night, can't remember if it was during a strike of some sort, didn't see any picket lines, but maybe it was a secret temporary base to sort mail bags.

Maybe i'm a scab...

My memory is also recalling a few nights worked in Copperas hill sorting office, bloody hell amazing what you can remember, i had almost totally forgotten about this experience.

I definately am a scab...


This is also bringing back the worst job experience ever, so much so it only lasted a day.
Working at the now demolished British Leather factory on Hawthorne road Bootle, dragging cow hides in and out of giant tumble dryers... what a smell, (think of rotting meat), you had to get right inside the smelly hot dryer to drag the heavy hide out, and there were drums of evil looking chemicals everywhere sitting in multicoloured puddles of vapourous stinky water, the manager, a Simpsonsesque "Mr Burns" Scottish fella had a terrible complexion, with strange bloodshot eyes, he looked forward to us coming back the next day and we said we would, but he and we knew we wouldn't be back, and we werent....

Last edited by JUXTAPOL; October 12th, 2007 at 01:43 PM.
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Old October 12th, 2007, 02:25 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUXTAPOL View Post
Actually, that reminds me of a bit of work i did for a few nights in about 1992 during University. We (mostly uni students) were bussed from the Addeco agency on North John Street to Warrington (ex U.S. airbase hangars), to sort mail bags during the night, can't remember if it was during a strike of some sort, didn't see any picket lines, but maybe it was a secret temporary base to sort mail bags.

Maybe i'm a scab...

My memory is also recalling a few nights worked in Copperas hill sorting office, bloody hell amazing what you can remember, i had almost totally forgotten about this experience.

I definately am a scab...

T This is also bringing back the worst job experience ever, so much so it only lasted a day.
Working at the now demolished British Leather factory on Hawthorne road Bootle, dragging cow hides in and out of giant tumble dryers... what a smell, (think of rotting meat), you had to get right inside the smelly hot dryer to drag the heavy hide out, and there were drums of evil looking chemicals everywhere sitting in multicoloured puddles of vapourous stinky water, the manager, a Simpsonsesque "Mr Burns" Scottish fella had a terrible complexion, with strange bloodshot eyes, he looked forward to us coming back the next day and we said we would, but he and we knew we wouldn't be back, and we werent....
"The leathy" in Bootle. Used to nip in there as a kid. A cross between a Frankenstein set and Hellraiser.
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Old October 12th, 2007, 02:25 PM   #110
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And that's basically that,you're spot on Awayo.

They always goad Liverpool to get this reaction,imagine going into work to be told your hours have changed as of now without prior notice,imagine the problems that may cause the individual who normally picks up their kids from school straight after work,well this happened.The changes were meant to be implemented Nationally on the 22nd of October so why did they do this if it wasn't to get a reation? All of the posties are saying is we'll abide by any decisions that are made after the current talks are agreed between the management and the unions,is that too much to ask? Incidentally to all of the people with the sack them mentality agree that the managers should be sacked too,because they also balloted for strike action recently? Incidentally nothing came of it because Royal Mail gave into every demand within a week of them suggesting it,I'm past caring because Royal Mail wont be part of my future.
Very interesting that Paul. That sort of management behaviour, especially if it has been deliberately targeted at Liverpool workers needs far more publicity.
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Old October 12th, 2007, 02:33 PM   #111
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It strikes me that the Royal Mail management is trying for a "demonstration war" type of victory like what happened to the miners.

They are being unreasonable with the full knowledge that the postal workers will be pushed into a position where they strike and are soundly beaten. The government seems happy with this plan.

The upshot (and the ultimate plan, it seems) is that the Mail as we've known it for all of our lives is on its way out. You don't have to be a leftwing extremist to recognise that not everything is best provided by free market competition. The Mail is (or was) a service - not everything it does can be provided profitably. So, yeah, throw it open to competition, get rid of the postal workers previously half-decent pay and conditions so that it can compete head-to-head with the buttons-paying private competitors. What will you end up with then? Competition (and, maybe, lower prices) for profitable b2b mail services, yes.

However, all of the other services that the Mail/GPO has provided in the past - collection boxes and POs in the tiniest village and all outlying estates, ie, pick up and delivery from every single location in the UK to every location in the country - services that are in the national public interest and can never survive in a commercial free for all, will go and go forever.

Most people accept that the economy is likely to be more successful with a far greater proportion of industrial activity in the private sector, compared to the situtuation in the 60s and 70s. In retrospect a lot of Thatcher's privatisations can be viewed to be a success.

However, the Thatcherites became so wedding to their ideology of private=good/public=bad that they proceeded to carry on privatising things that were best left in the public sector such as the railways. We now have a "Labour" government itself weirdly fixed on the same ideology that it is also desperate to privatise public services that clearly are not sensibly provided on commercial basis.

So, a 300 year old service (founded by that commie Charles II) stupidly destroyed forever for reasons of market liberal, faith-based ideology. In ten years time, City firms will have a few choices in sending out their mail, to be delivered by minimum-wage immigrants. However, if an old lady in Speke with mobility difficulties wants to send a birthday card to her grandson, she'll need to pay 30 quid to get it picked up by UPS or get a bus/taxi into town (or Warrington, more likely!) where the nearest drop off box might be. People living in Uist will have to catch ferry and then a train to Glasgow.

Bag of shite.
Privatisation a success? If you count huge price rises in real terms for,rail travel,Gas,Water,electricity for cheaper phone calls it is.
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Old October 12th, 2007, 02:52 PM   #112
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"The leathy" in Bootle. Used to nip in there as a kid. A cross between a Frankenstein set and Hellraiser.
Yes thats what i though, a mixture of industrial, dickensian, chemical, mechanical hell, the strange thing was me and two mates seemed to be the only people there along with the manager, made me wonder if the hides weren't actually human...
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Old October 12th, 2007, 05:03 PM   #113
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Incidentally to all of the people with the sack them mentality agree that the managers should be sacked too,because they also balloted for strike action recently? Incidentally nothing came of it because Royal Mail gave into every demand within a week of them suggesting it,I'm past caring because Royal Mail wont be part of my future.
Personally think the management of Royal Mail need a bloody good clean out and total re-organisation. I also think that some of the practices I have witnessed at the Royal Mail are arcane and the whole entity needs to realise that it is operating in the 21st century. This is by no means a simple situation with easy solutions but it is definitely one that needs to be faced and addressed by all parties. Whether those working within the organisation, be they 'workers' or 'management' (a concept of division and derision that few businesses can afford to operate under in this era) have the vision, insight and passion to delivery an organisation capable of operating at the cutting edge, remains to be seen. On current evidence I am a little pessimistic about this.

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Old October 29th, 2007, 05:25 AM   #114
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Arrow Tesco boss takes case for Liverpool to the capital .....

Tesco boss takes case for Liverpool to the capital

Oct 25 2007 by Tony McDonough, Liverpool Daily Post

Sir Terry Leahy (158)

TESCO chief executive Sir Terry Leahy will speak up for his home town when he addresses an audience of business leaders at an event in London this morning.

The event, called Doing Business in Liverpool – City of Opportunity, is organised by inward investment agency The Mersey Partnership (TMP) and the Northwest Development Agency (NWDA). It will highlight the economic renaissance across the Liverpool city region and outline business opportunities that are available.

Sir Terry and other speakers will address an invited audience of London-based industrialists, investors, intermediaries and professional services sector representatives.

“They will hear from senior figures currently committing significant investment to their operations in Merseyside.

Mark Basnett, TMP’s director responsible for inward investment, said: “Liverpool city region has experienced strong economic growth and market confidence during the last six years.

“This fact and the evidence which underpins it, together with new investment opportunities arising from very significant developments now taking place, provide a compelling business proposition which is distinctive to Liverpool city region – not available in any of our competitor locations. In terms of business growth, people and skills, research and innovation assets, property and price we are offering the market something unique, and that is the resounding message we will be taking to the City.”

Other speakers will include TMP chief executive Lorraine Rogers, NWDA chief executive Steve Broomhead, Grosvenor director Rodney Holmes, Mark Powell, executive chairman of Rathbone Brothers, and David Cassidy, chief executive of JPMorgan Invest (UK).

Ms Rogers said: “Independent research commissioned by TMP last year confirms that, overall, Liverpool put in a strong performance to rank in third place in the Image League of UK cities likely to secure investment.

“Forty per cent of all companies asked said they would consider the city as a location to invest. We intend to build on that by showcasing in more detail to an important audience exactly what is available to businesses and the people they employ.

“A further key message we will relay is our lifestyle offer which really does place the city region apart from others.”

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Old October 29th, 2007, 10:56 AM   #115
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Notice the term "Liverpool city region" being used a lot now, a good move.
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Old October 29th, 2007, 12:31 PM   #116
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booo..... i thought that there might be some good new about 1000 new high flying jobs coming to the city.... oh well we live in hope
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Old October 29th, 2007, 04:46 PM   #117
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Notice the term "Liverpool city region" being used a lot now, a good move.
Yes,all we need to do know is get the Echo on board.
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Old October 29th, 2007, 06:16 PM   #118
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fuck liverpool, fuck england and fuck the queen!
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Old October 29th, 2007, 06:24 PM   #119
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fuck the queen!
I would rather not, if that is all right with you.
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Old October 29th, 2007, 07:21 PM   #120
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I would rather not, if that is all right with you.
Too right. The drummer and the one with the hair are alright, but Freddie's been dead years..
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