Fitzroy Place | City of Westminster | U/C

[jimbo]

Originally Posted by ill tonkso

Absolutely fucking criminal.

come on dude.....have you actually seen the site or the building in the flesh? You should have had a chat to Chief on Saturday - its an interesting development, and I lived but 5 mins from the site for a year in 2001 and recognise the difficulties of converting buildings such as this, especially ex healthcare sites.
The name, its branding and everything it seems to stand for (poor poor NY allusions) is certainly pants, but I'm interested in the overall scheme and how it pans out - again, its lowrise, fits in with its surroundings, and certainly offers more public realm than the old hospital did.

Fitzrovia is a great, understated area. The refurb of the Berners Hotel should be great, Charlotte Street is a delight, but lots of Fitzrovia (especially around the BT Tower) is awful 60s dross (UCL halls of residence seem to offend more than most). I truely don't think this is a detrimental addition to the area.

I do love the debate on this thread though.

[storms991]

Is it more expensive to refurbish a building or rebuild?

[london lad]

Originally Posted by storms991

Is it more expensive to refurbish a building or rebuild?

If its an ex NHS hospital consisting of a collection of various buildings consisting of long corridors & small rooms then a rebuild it is.

[JGG]

Well yeah, but the main reason is to maximize the profit, i.e. to achieve the maximum floor surface. If some of the better exterior walls had been retained, that would have cut in the profits because it requires a more expensive construction technique and makes it harder to increase the height by roughly 70%.

The profits drive the intention, the architectural story is just the marketing spin that is required to get it through planning. At least for some developers. And London planners are notoriously weak and defocused: those in Westminster care more about the preservation of lath-and-plaster ceilings in grade II houses than maintaining the consistency of conservation areas.

London is losing again a few nice facades here. Somehow the demolition of this building got somewhat more publicity than hoped for, and it is a discussion topic. If I may try to summarise the view of a few friends in the foreign community: "Fortunately they can blame all their planning mistakes on the Germans and WWII".

Anyway, let's have a look at this street in a few years (by the way, this bridge has to go as well, doesn't fit into the footballers' wives design concept of Candi & Candi )

[ill tonkso]

Originally Posted by jimbo

come on dude.....have you actually seen the site or the building in the flesh? You should have had a chat to Chief on Saturday - its an interesting development, and I lived but 5 mins from the site for a year in 2001 and recognise the difficulties of converting buildings such as this, especially ex healthcare sites.
The name, its branding and everything it seems to stand for (poor poor NY allusions) is certainly pants, but I'm interested in the overall scheme and how it pans out - again, its lowrise, fits in with its surroundings, and certainly offers more public realm than the old hospital did.

Fitzrovia is a great, understated area. The refurb of the Berners Hotel should be great, Charlotte Street is a delight, but lots of Fitzrovia (especially around the BT Tower) is awful 60s dross (UCL halls of residence seem to offend more than most). I truely don't think this is a detrimental addition to the area.

I do love the debate on this thread though.

You make a good arguement, I shall reserve judgement untill I get a decent look at the site. Ill probably head up London again very soon.

[jimbo]

Originally Posted by ill tonkso

You make a good arguement, I shall reserve judgement untill I get a decent look at the site. Ill probably head up London again very soon.

fair do's - not disagreeing that it is a shame to loose a Victorian building, but that its demise seems to draw reactions on a par with someone threatening demolition of the Albert Hall or St Pancras!

Now the UCL Cruciform Building is an absolute beaut, which you could imagine at one time or another has been threatened, especially as it sits next door to University College Hospital on the other side of Tottenham Court Road from Fitzrovia







These are the buildings we should be fighting tooth and nail to save (not that it is actually threatened), not something like the Middlesex Hospital or One New Change which (in my view) were basically rather oppressive behemoths in their own rights, with inherent difficulties in conversion to any modern use. The layout of the Noho Square site is a mess, looks thrown together over time and rather like the splurge of random buildings that were previously crowding around the Reading Room in the Great Court of the British Museum before Foster did his magic.

[NothingBetterToDo]

Personally, i find the Cruiform building rather austere and oppressive. Its genuinely not a very pleasant building to walk around. What with its recesses and blank walls.

But i do agree - it should, without question be protected. It may not be to my particular taste, but i can still appreciate it.

[Chief]

I took language classes inside the Cruciform building last year. It's a real maze inside - a nightmare to find your way around due to the unusual plan shape. I agree that it's a bit oppressive to walk around, but it would be a real shame to lose a building of such distinctive character.

And jimbo - glad to see I'm not the only one who's been surprised at the strength of some of the rhetoric. I usually just put it down to the unique power of the internet to turn perfectly decent normal people into instant pricks.

[Langur]

Originally Posted by jimbo

fair do's - not disagreeing that it is a shame to loose a Victorian building, but that its demise seems to draw reactions on a par with someone threatening demolition of the Albert Hall or St Pancras!

Now the UCL Cruciform Building is an absolute beaut, which you could imagine at one time or another has been threatened, especially as it sits next door to University College Hospital on the other side of Tottenham Court Road from Fitzrovia.

These are the buildings we should be fighting tooth and nail to save (not that it is actually threatened), not something like the Middlesex Hospital or One New Change which (in my view) were basically rather oppressive behemoths in their own rights, with inherent difficulties in conversion to any modern use. The layout of the Noho Square site is a mess, looks thrown together over time and rather like the splurge of random buildings that were previously crowding around the Reading Room in the Great Court of the British Museum before Foster did his magic.

That UCH building is certainly a gem but we should be preserving far more Victoriana than mere landmarks. We should preserve streetscapes and indeed whole districts of non-extraordinary Victorian buildings that come together for a nice urban effect. Fitzrovia is a one such attractive area and we should have safeguards to protect it in general - not just a handful of landmark individual buildings. That doesn't mean the area has to stagnate completely. Individual redevelopments can be considered on their merits. Now I agree that the Middlesex Hospital and One New Change in the City were not great buildings. The latter was actually a post-war building. However I'm disappointed that the former Middlesex Hospital is making way for such a mediocre replacement - probably inferior to its predecessor. One New Change, by contrast, will be replaced by a far superior one.

[wjfox]

From my office here I can see the white sheet of death starting to go up.

[fitz44]

Originally Posted by Langur

That UCH building is certainly a gem but we should be preserving far more Victoriana than mere landmarks. We should preserve streetscapes and indeed whole districts of non-extraordinary Victorian buildings that come together for a nice urban effect. Fitzrovia is a one such attractive area and we should have safeguards to protect it in general - not just a handful of landmark individual buildings. That doesn't mean the area has to stagnate completely. Individual redevelopments can be considered on their merits.

Agreed and it is worth remebering that some of the buildings on the hospital site are being preserved, the whole row along Nassau St are being retained.

[Chief]

Was on site for a walk around the chapel in Wednesday (if you ever get the chance to go in there once this is complete, I recommend you take it. It is an absolutely stunningly beautiful space. Highly ornate, and it's all being retained, repaired and restored to its former glory). Demolition on site is well under way - all systems go. The view to the west down Tottenham street has changed completely. It used to terminate in the façade of one of the buildings, but that's now been ripped down.

[GazKinz]

Taken today, demolition well under way. Cleveland Street.






What used to be.

The main block was worth preserving in my opinion, I like the stripped down classical look.




The block was a hotch potch of different style buildings not all of which were worth preserving, like the one on the left of this picture.


And this.


This I think will stay, on the corner of Mortimer Street and Nassau Street.


As well as the Nassau Street Facade.




This interesting bridge is going too, not sure about the building on the left.

[DarJoLe]

I have to say the parts that are going are pretty grim really. That entrance could easily be mistaken for some 1980s Po-Mo disaster to be honest.

not sure how successful the integration of the facade that is staying will be with the MAKE scheme. Could be one of those token facade-saving moments that maybe won't really work and just look a bit silly really.

[Manuel]

A bird's eye view from the BT tower
photo credit : Robgudgeon

image hosted on flickr

[Lord Nelson]

[london lad]

That picture shows perfectly that most of this site is not a worthy heritage listed Victorian masterpiece that its sometimes made out to be.

[wjfox]

Couple of pics from today -

[Chief]

Great perspective. I had no idea that the development would be so much taller than its surroundings.

The first pic makes it look huge!

[Dothog]

Most of the web addresses on the hoardings round the site now say “www.(blank space)square.com”… how very odd.