California's Best And Worst Mid-Sized City Downtowns

[Raven83]

Holy Molly!Wooow That's SLO now? ....

[centralcali19]

Downtown Visalia has a fairly nice downtown. with Its historic heritage and modern buildings. If someone doesnt know about Visalia, its located in Central California, population hitting almost 120,000, with a metro pop. of 450,000. Its tallest building is 6 floors (hospital under-construction) will almost reach 100 ft. (pics are not mine, but soon ill take some of my own. )

[Badfish301]

Visalia has light rail? or is that just regular rail running through?

[sloguy]

Originally Posted by Badfish301

"I'm surprised SLO isn't there, one of the biggest cities between SF and LA, and it's got a downtown that has a mixture of a college atmosphere, and old school gentleman's feel, very classy, mixed with a huge block of brand new development. All in the middle of nowhere. It should've gotten an honorable mention. "

I agree that San Luis Obispo might be the nicest, but it is probably because the cities official population is actually around 75,000, but inside the city limits is only 44,000.. This does not include Cal Poly (16,000) and many residents who aren't incorporated for some reason (estimated at 15,000 people). The 'metropolitan' population of the area is 225,000..

Anyway, San Luis Obispo is a growing destination, with commercial flights to cities as far away as Salt Lake City.. and soon Denver/Seattle, so I consider it at least a small mid-sized city.. It's older than the U.S. (1772)

SLO is such a beautiful city, but I'm not sure if you're right with your numbers. 75000 seems to be a little too big.
SLO will be in the poll for small cities (where it belongs) and is a sure contender for victory there.

I just posted a couple of other pix in another thread, I will also put em here:



Cal Poly State in front of Cerro San Luis and Bishop Peak:


Cerro San Luis and Bishop Peak:


By night from Bishop:


Calpoly from Bishop:


Again from top of Bishop:


Bishop from climb to Cerro San Luis:


Downtown Creek Area:


Farmer's Market on Higuera St.:


SLO from top of a parking structure downtown:


Bubble Gum Alley


Cerro San Luis receiving some night fog:


Green mountains in April, Cerro San Luis to the right:


One more down from Bishop Peak:

[gladisimo]

Wow i'm surprised we have some ppl from SLO here. I wasn't aware that SLO was a metro, since the whole thing seemed pretty coherent as a city (granted I only visited downtown and Cal Poly)

[arturo]

As a former SLO resident, I can vouch for the town's beauty, natural and man-made. Definitely my favorite small-city downtown. I interned at the Mission while I was there and that plaza has to be my favorite place in California.

[Badfish301]

SLOtown represent

We're probably just pissed there aren't any skyscrapers nearby, and that's why we love them.. We've only got the potentially 5 story court street project, and now 4 story Chinatown project to look forward to height wise.. oh well.

It's actually kind of suprising how many people know about SLO, or have some connection to the city I meet all over the country and world. It is an education and government hub.

As far as the 75,000 metro, SLO has some of the most constricted city limits in the entire county, and there are MANY residents just outside the city limits who are not counted.. think the Southwest side of town, the country club, much of edna valley, much of the area around TankFarm Road, and all of CalPoly..

Not to mention, very many people work in San Luis Obispo and commute from the 5 cities, los Osos/Baywood/Morro or North county.. Los Osos is practically our suburb.

(not in downtown, but about 7 blocks from it.. Can't forget the always growing Spanos (Mustang) stadium..


at number 170 largest metropolitan pop 1/4 mill.. SLO-Paso-5cities even Nipomo Santa Maria to Orcutt is becoming one large metro area (with rugged terrain in between the urbanization)

while SLO's pop might 'technically' be 44,500 right now, that excludes much of the outlying parts of the city, and Cal Poly. SLO is also becoming the commercial and government Job base for the area, and is 'meeting place' of a fast growing county and metro pop. of 257,000.

Cal Poly has now surpassed UC San Diego as the largest dormer in the UC system, the Poly Canyon Village project is enormous:
here's a link to the live webcam: http://www.facilities.calpoly.edu/ca...LogoWebCam.htm


None of the students living on Poly land show up in our pop figure.. but they exist. and they pump money into the economy. If San Luis had lest restricted city limits, and incorporated more of the surrounding urbanized area including the country club land, and poly, and other areas the sign would probably read more like 75,000

I added some of the other better known metros that are smaller: so if we're going by metro SLO's easily in there..

170 San Luis Obispo-Paso Robles, CA 257,005
172 Santa Cruz–Watsonville CA 249,705
173 Cedar Rapids IA 249,320
175 Merced CA 245,658
177 Amarillo TX 241,515
180 Lynchburg VA 239,510
183 Olympia WA 234,670
185 Laredo TX 231,470
186 Macon GA 229,326
187 Topeka KS 228,894
188 Gulfport–Biloxi MS 227,904
189 Waco TX 226,189
192 Appleton WI 217,313
193 Champaign–Urbana IL 216,581
195 Sioux Falls SD 212,911
196 Prescott AZ 208,014
198 Springfield IL 206,112
199 Burlington–South Burlington VT 206,007
203 Tuscaloosa AL 198,769
205 Medford OR
206 Racine WI 196,096
213 Charlottesville VA 190,278
214 Yuma AZ 187,555
215 Fargo ND–MN 187,001
216 Bellingham WA 185,953
217 Lafayette IN 185,745
218 Athens–Clarke County GA 185,479
219 St. Cloud MN 182,784
220 Kingston NY 182,742
221 Fort Walton Beach–Crestview–Destin FL 180,291
222 Redding CA 179,951
223 Rochester MN 179,573
227 Gainesville GA 173,256
230 Terre Haute IN 168,217
231 Greenville NC 165,776
232 Albany GA 163,961
233 Jackson MI 163,851
234 Panama City–Lynn Haven FL 163,505
239 Bloomington–Normal IL 161,202
240 Oshkosh–Neenah WI 160,893
242 Janesville WI 159,153
243 Abilene TX 158,063
244 Columbia MO 155,997
245 Eau Claire WI 155,041
249 Pueblo CO 152,912
252 Jacksonville NC 150,673
255 Bend OR 149,140
256 Billings MT 148,116
257 Dover DE 147,601
259 Bangor ME 147,180
260 Johnstown PA 146,967
261 Madera CA 146,345
262 Rocky Mount NC 146,276
264 Wichita Falls TX 145,528
265 Jefferson City MO 144,958
266 Sioux City IA–NE–SD 143,474
267 Burlington NC 142,661
269 Santa Fe NM 142,407
270 Springfield OH 141,872
272 Iowa City IA 139,567
298 Flagstaff AZ 124,953

[Badfish301]

well.. seeing as how this thread hasn't gotten much love by any other cities.. I'll post some more pictures of SLO I shot recently

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr

someone left their thong in the street... uh oh.

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr

Looking east.. Amazingly, even though San Luis Obispo is predominately a chaparral (Mediterranean) biome, just 3 miles east of downtown SLO, in the Santa Lucia Range (just behind that second ridgeline in the picture above) lies pine tree valleys that look a lot like switzerland.. most people don't even know about this place, but this is literally 3 miles from downtown.. that's what's so great about SLO, plenty of places to escape to.. If you want to go to where I took this pic 2 days ago (just go to the top of the grade, and hike southeast on Mt. Lowe Road its about a 10 mile hike roundtrip to that point, but I recommend going all the way down into Fern Valley and checking out the giant fern)

image hosted on flickr

[fredcalif]

wowwwwwwwwwwwwww, what a beautiful place.
I have been to all the big cities in the state, I would have to visit SLO, it looks very nice

[arturo]

Originally Posted by Badfish301

Cal Poly has now surpassed UC San Diego as the largest dormer in the UC system

i know it seems like we're a UC but we're still a CSU!

[Badfish301]

Cal Poly is UC caliber.. but no, that would be a slip-up on my part.

Because there isn't a thread for SLO development obviously, I thought I would just post this here.. SLO was about to have a 7 story building, but there are a ton of NIMBYs in town that are much more vocal than people like me who have a job and would actually like increased (attractive well designed) height in town.

This diagram shows 2 elevations, with the 'ghosted image' in the background the original proposal, and the colored in stuff what it's been reduced to.

image hosted on flickr


Here's the PDF to the Chinatown Project Details

In other SLO development news.. the 5 story Garden Street Terraces, and a lot of 4 story buildings (one at chorro and marsh, and one next to Ah Louis) and many others,, but nothing too tall.

[sloguy]

Well, you've gotta respect that people here wanna preserve the small-town ideal that actually makes SLO so nice. Without the big buildings and without the chain-stores (which couldn't be stopped - like A&F, Apple).
Definitely SLO's got to stay "slow".
Plus people sometimes mention the point that the mountains that surround SLO should stay visible from downtown (dunno if that's a valid or important argument but I've heard people saying that).

[Badfish301]

It's true that a lot of people want to preserve SLO's small town image with height restrictions, but you can't have affordable housing downtown (a main city priority) without 5 + story buildings and turn a profit. Besides, taller mixed use can promote, and retain downtown as the city center, instead of development going to the south side of town, and Madonna side of town, where the REAL big box stores are.

It is a myth that San Luis will become L.A. because the buildings are 2 stories taller than they are now (in fact the thing that makes L.A. shitty is that it is sprawled out, instead of being compact) Most of the time taller mixed use improves a cities downtown. It might make it more interesting, and environmentally friendly (compact urban form reduces CO2, and other benefits).

A hundred years ago San Luis wasn't afraid of tall buildings, with the Anderson hotel, Ramona hotel, and others at 5 and 6 stories.

As for the height restrictions, and view shed ordinances, The city actually decided to enact 'important view corridors', from the mission plaza, and key intersections and shadows aren't allowed to be cast on the southern sidewalk on Higuera, Marsh, and Monterey streets and noon on the winter solstice.

As is buildings can only be 50 feet, 75 feet if they meet all city requirements (affordable housing etc.)

I just really wish Chinatown had been scaled down maybe 1 story instead of the drastic scale-down.

On a side note sloguy and other slocals check this out:SLO streetcar

If Cal Poly paid half (they are an engineering school, it might make an interesting project) that's only 30 Mill for the city.. and it would connect poly canyon village (and dorms) and all of cal poly with downtown.. it would be lucrative from Poly's viewpoint. SLO city would like it because it adds a sense of 'place', brings in money from Poly, and brings in the tourists down Monterey street.

[sloguy]

Badfish,
I must admit I agree with your opinion that SLO would rather stay the way it is with some higher structures and a denser downtown area.
I don't really have an opinion on the streetcar, but it sure would add something precious that would totally match today's perception of the city - slow, green, environmentally friendly, special.

[jchernin]

i lived in slo (went to poly)

great downtown for the size

but just ONE of the many great cali (MID-SIZED) cities

[qymekkam]

you cant compare visalia with fresno. fresno is better its just that you guys only go ti the bad parts of downtown

[qymekkam]

downtown visalia feels like a street or two to me

[JoshuaSantos]

Originally Posted by dewback

Well, I moved to the Bay Area when I came to Cal. I lived in Berkeley my first year, but then I found a much better deal living in Oakland. The commute isn't bad, and this area of the city is relatively safe.

Krudmonk, when I saw San Jose's downtown my first reaction was: "THIS is their downtown!?" Oakland's downtown is not glamorous, but at least it has more density and better public transportation access (BART beats the VTA light rail system). Also, while I found Oakland's downtown to be too empty, San Jose's was even worse. It is understandable because it is where the valley meets the city, but still.

Image below is from one of 10 stages at the San Jose Jazz festival. There were a dozen city blocks completely filled with people morning to night for 3 days, and hundreds of live Jazz performances.

Go to downtown SJ on any Thursday, Friday, or Saturday this year and then tell me it's more empty than Oakland.

[krudmonk]

"ya but were is the tall bildings omg?!?!?12/"

[rst22]

Originally Posted by lfcsr11

wow, those pictures of Fresno were depressing, but wait til you see it in person, believe it or not, it gets much worse, when your driving down highway 99 you can barely see it, I think downtown Visalia is a bit better and its tallest are 6,8 and 9 story buildings

I have been there. Very depressing but it has potential. Though we may have to wait another 20 years.