daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > Megatalls

Megatalls Discussions of projects under construction at least 600m/2,000 ft tall.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old October 2nd, 2013, 04:31 PM   #6221
Vito Corleone
Moderator
 
Vito Corleone's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New York - Chicago
Posts: 311
Likes (Received): 324

Quote:
Originally Posted by krkseg1ops View Post
So 170 floors, aye? That would indicate the original 1007m plan was a false flag If the height adding goes similar to BK, we should be looking at 1200ish tower
I'm betting on something just over 1050. I think they are afraid of Azerbaijan.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1, K.S.A liked this post
Vito Corleone no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 2nd, 2013, 04:56 PM   #6222
KillerZavatar
also known as Wally
 
KillerZavatar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Düsseldorf
Posts: 11,341
Likes (Received): 8240

Azerbaijan Tower does not have any final design aswell though, so it is likely if Azerbaijan Tower gets built, they might increase height to get Kingdom Tower. Kingdom Tower will probably also not release any height details to make Azerbaijan Tower harder to know what it has to aim for.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
KillerZavatar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2013, 05:19 PM   #6223
patrykus
Registered User
 
patrykus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 3,778
Likes (Received): 1794

Completion dates of both towers are so far away from each other that I think there is no real competition between them. I doubt the azerbaijan tower will even start any ground works in 2016 as they say it would. I think that whatever height kt will be build to Azeris will always have the time to design and build taller to beat it.
__________________
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CComingSoon/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C

patrykus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2013, 05:22 PM   #6224
krkseg1ops
Registered User
 
krkseg1ops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Kraków - dawna stolica Polaków
Posts: 1,920
Likes (Received): 1153

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
Um not really.. Burj khalifa for instance have 163 floors, and Kingdom tower both at ctbuh and wikipedia is described to have 167 floors so no big floor count increase happen.
I did not neccessarily mean increased floor count. You can add few floors and extend the spire or the base of it by tens of metres without compromising the overall design and soundness of the structure. IMO it would be harder to add 10 floors rather than 60 meters of crown/spire/tip of the building.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
krkseg1ops no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2013, 05:58 PM   #6225
patrykus
Registered User
 
patrykus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 3,778
Likes (Received): 1794

You clearly said that 170 floor count may indicate height increase, so that's what I was referring to. And it's just 3 floors more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krkseg1ops View Post
So 170 floors, aye? That would indicate the original 1007m plan was a false flag If the height adding goes similar to BK, we should be looking at 1200ish tower
But of course you can increase the height without adding floors. Although in this particular case that would be quite tricky since it's already a quite stretched design.
__________________
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CComingSoon/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C


ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
patrykus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2013, 07:47 PM   #6226
krkseg1ops
Registered User
 
krkseg1ops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Kraków - dawna stolica Polaków
Posts: 1,920
Likes (Received): 1153

I agree with the stretched design. My original point was that if they can change the floor count, they can change anything.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
krkseg1ops no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2013, 08:03 PM   #6227
christos-greece
Moderator!
 
christos-greece's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 173,948
Likes (Received): 240886

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZ-II View Post
so well have at least 170 floors, nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
Um not really.. Burj khalifa for instance have 163 floors, and Kingdom tower both at ctbuh and wikipedia is described to have 167 floors so no big floor count increase happen.
Dont forget to add the mechanical floors. In Burj Khalifa was 32 if i am right, so here must be around the same number of mechanical floors, or few more.
__________________
Urban Showcase: Athens Kalamata Trikala Thessaloniki
Cityscapes: Paris Barcelona Dubai, U.A.E. Monte Carlo, Monaco
General photography: Castles of France - Chateau de France and, since May of '08: Greece!
christos-greece no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2013, 11:05 PM   #6228
ThatOneGuy
Psst! Check my signature!
 
ThatOneGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto - Bucharest - Freeport
Posts: 21,494

Am I the only one who likes this building for the design and doesn't care about the height? Who cares if Azeraijan's will be taller? I hope they don't compromise the set proportions to increase in height. You cannot simply extend a tapered building.
ThatOneGuy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2013, 12:03 AM   #6229
Kyll.Ing.
Registered User
 
Kyll.Ing.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Trondheim
Posts: 1,088
Likes (Received): 3632

For an engineering project of this side, you can't extend, period. Adding ten metres to the structure would require all new calculations and wind tunnel tests and the like, to be done from scratch. Given that all that is already finished (it most likely is, as while it's not unheard of to start building before all drawings are finished, they probably want to take their time and do things properly with such a large tower), it would be downright idiotic to change the height at this stage. Once they settle for a design and decide to go through with detail planning, they can't change their minds without wasting outrageous sums of money and delaying the entire project. Generally, the further a project has progressed, the less things can be changed.
__________________
Poe's law: You can't impersonate stupidity without somebody mistaking it for the real thing.

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
Kyll.Ing. no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2013, 01:46 AM   #6230
patrykus
Registered User
 
patrykus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 3,778
Likes (Received): 1794

In theory you can extend a tower even after construction started (to some extend). And we have to remember this is not a regular tower and normal logic doesn't apply here. This tower is not being build to make profit but to make the area around more desirable, and it does it by being worlds tallest tower so if there would be any real competition I bet they would spend all the needed money to rise it but since there is no competition on the horizon I doubt they will. Also in this particular case adding height to the tower after it started construction, even though possible, would be a matter of destroying the design in the name of the height since this tower consists of several perfectly flat planes and adding height halfway up would certainly destroy this "flattenes".

There is always the possibility that the original height is taller and kept in secret but I remember seeing spy photos of blueprints showing 1007m tower so I doubt they would go much taller above that if there is no other tower to beat.
__________________
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CComingSoon/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C

patrykus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2013, 01:33 PM   #6231
AltinD
The Modecator
 
AltinD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: TIRANA / Dubai / Vienna
Posts: 31,827
Likes (Received): 6071

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyll.Ing. View Post
For an engineering project of this side, you can't extend, period. Adding ten metres to the structure would require all new calculations and wind tunnel tests and the like, to be done from scratch. Given that all that is already finished (it most likely is, as while it's not unheard of to start building before all drawings are finished, they probably want to take their time and do things properly with such a large tower), it would be downright idiotic to change the height at this stage. Once they settle for a design and decide to go through with detail planning, they can't change their minds without wasting outrageous sums of money and delaying the entire project. Generally, the further a project has progressed, the less things can be changed.
#cough# #cough#

__________________
I am the eye in the sky, Looking at you
I can read your mind
I am the maker of rules, Dealing with fools
I can cheat you blind.

AltinD no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2013, 04:14 PM   #6232
Kyll.Ing.
Registered User
 
Kyll.Ing.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Trondheim
Posts: 1,088
Likes (Received): 3632

How much *was* really changed for Burj Khalifa, though? I thought the exact height was just kept a secret until the opening? They might have decided on the final height long after revealing the tower, but once the structural calculations were finished, it would be pretty much set in stone. There are certain requirements and security factors to take into account, and for every metre of height you add, more tons of steel will have to be accounted for. If the regulations require a security factor of, say, 1.7, you'll have to dimension beams to withstand an extra 1.7 tons of force for every ton you physically add to the tower. If that requires the beams holding the spire to be even thicker, well, that's another few kilograms of mass to add to the sum (after multiplication by 1.7, of course). And so it goes all the way down to the foundations. If at some point in the chain, the dimensions of an already-built load-bearing element are too small to hold the load, you'll have to tear it out and replace it if you want to extend the height. Once you start pouring the bottom slab, the sole of the tower, you set a cap on how much the tower can weigh, and thus, how tall it can be. Either way, new structural calculations would have to be performed (and revised!) if the blueprints were to be changed. At this point in the building process, it might not be more costly than that, but they're quickly approaching the point of no return as far as final height goes.
__________________
Poe's law: You can't impersonate stupidity without somebody mistaking it for the real thing.

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
Kyll.Ing. no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2013, 06:33 PM   #6233
Anonymous-scraperfan
The taller, the better.
 
Anonymous-scraperfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London
Posts: 265
Likes (Received): 71

A thing for the future could be an artificial mountain like everest or K2, completely made of concrete and could be painted to look like them, probably use it for a bomb shelter or something.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
Anonymous-scraperfan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2013, 08:55 PM   #6234
Vito Corleone
Moderator
 
Vito Corleone's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New York - Chicago
Posts: 311
Likes (Received): 324

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
In theory you can extend a tower even after construction started (to some extend). And we have to remember this is not a regular tower and normal logic doesn't apply here. This tower is not being build to make profit but to make the area around more desirable, and it does it by being worlds tallest tower so if there would be any real competition I bet they would spend all the needed money to rise it but since there is no competition on the horizon I doubt they will. Also in this particular case adding height to the tower after it started construction, even though possible, would be a matter of destroying the design in the name of the height since this tower consists of several perfectly flat planes and adding height halfway up would certainly destroy this "flattenes".

There is always the possibility that the original height is taller and kept in secret but I remember seeing spy photos of blueprints showing 1007m tower so I doubt they would go much taller above that if there is no other tower to beat.
I shouldn't be saying this, but remember what happened in New York in 1930.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
Vito Corleone no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2013, 09:20 PM   #6235
SkYsCrApEr2013
The AlphaWolf of the Pack
 
SkYsCrApEr2013's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,748
Likes (Received): 2083

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous-scraperfan View Post
A thing for the future could be an artificial mountain like everest or K2, completely made of concrete and could be painted to look like them, probably use it for a bomb shelter or something.
Kind of like the X-seed 4000, that looks like Mt. Fuji, only taller
__________________
Top 10 tallest buildings:

Burj Khalifa, Shanghai Tower, Makkah Royal Clock Tower Hotel, Ping An Finance Center,
Goldin Finance 117, One World Trade Center, Chow Tai Fook Centre, Taipei 101, Shanghai World Financial Center and International Commerce Center.

R.I.P. Sawtooth Pack. You will be deeply missed.

I'm a really huge wolf lover! :D

I'M BACK!!!!

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
SkYsCrApEr2013 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 4th, 2013, 12:41 AM   #6236
patrykus
Registered User
 
patrykus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 3,778
Likes (Received): 1794

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Corleone View Post
I shouldn't be saying this, but remember what happened in New York in 1930.
I remember. There were two towers competing for the title. Here's just one.
__________________
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CComingSoon/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C


ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
patrykus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 4th, 2013, 08:24 AM   #6237
MattTheTubaGuy
Skyscrapers to the stars
 
MattTheTubaGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Christchurch
Posts: 970
Likes (Received): 647

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous-scraperfan View Post
A thing for the future could be an artificial mountain like everest or K2, completely made of concrete and could be painted to look like them, probably use it for a bomb shelter or something.
Why the hell would you want to build a solid concrete artificial mountain! If you really want something with that much protection, use an actual mountain!

It will be interesting to see if mountain sized structures do eventually get built. I think light will be a major problem, and it would probably be better to build multiple thinner mega structures. Just imagine a forest of 4 km high towers!
__________________
"Never memorize what you can look up in books" Albert Einstein
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible." Walt Disney

Complete and T/O Supertalls Map
U/C Supertalls Map
Prep and O/H Supertalls Map
All Supertalls map!

Google Earth map (WIP)

ZZ-II's World Supertalls List



view my buildings made on Maya

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
MattTheTubaGuy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 4th, 2013, 01:10 PM   #6238
patrykus
Registered User
 
patrykus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 3,778
Likes (Received): 1794

I think we'll see space elevator sooner than 4km skyscraper
__________________
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C
PolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CComingSoon/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/CPolishTowersU/C


ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
patrykus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 4th, 2013, 02:18 PM   #6239
AltinD
The Modecator
 
AltinD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: TIRANA / Dubai / Vienna
Posts: 31,827
Likes (Received): 6071

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyll.Ing. View Post
How much *was* really changed for Burj Khalifa, though? I thought the exact height was just kept a secret until the opening? They might have decided on the final height long after revealing the tower, but once the structural calculations were finished, it would be pretty much set in stone. There are certain requirements and security factors to take into account, and for every metre of height you add, more tons of steel will have to be accounted for. If the regulations require a security factor of, say, 1.7, you'll have to dimension beams to withstand an extra 1.7 tons of force for every ton you physically add to the tower. If that requires the beams holding the spire to be even thicker, well, that's another few kilograms of mass to add to the sum (after multiplication by 1.7, of course). And so it goes all the way down to the foundations. If at some point in the chain, the dimensions of an already-built load-bearing element are too small to hold the load, you'll have to tear it out and replace it if you want to extend the height. Once you start pouring the bottom slab, the sole of the tower, you set a cap on how much the tower can weigh, and thus, how tall it can be. Either way, new structural calculations would have to be performed (and revised!) if the blueprints were to be changed. At this point in the building process, it might not be more costly than that, but they're quickly approaching the point of no return as far as final height goes.
The final changes took place when the tower was 1/4 or 1/3 into construction (as far as height is concerned).

They said (Adrian Smith) after wind tests of different models, they could have extended even beyond 1 km, but the client decided not to, it would have spoiled the aesthetics of the tower.

The foundations were over engineered for the height, and the design tricks (setbacks) took care of the extra wind load factor (lateral forces), they even removed the water ballasts that were supposed to be on the base of the steel section, since the structure was strong enough to not need them.

However, they did reinforce the lower floors with carbon fiber
__________________
I am the eye in the sky, Looking at you
I can read your mind
I am the maker of rules, Dealing with fools
I can cheat you blind.

AltinD no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 4th, 2013, 03:40 PM   #6240
KillerZavatar
also known as Wally
 
KillerZavatar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Düsseldorf
Posts: 11,341
Likes (Received): 8240

and since the Kingdom Tower developpers knew of a possible Azerbaijan Tower being a threat for the title, it would make sense to test different models for this tower aswell. although because of the shape changing it after the supercolumns rise would be tricky without changing the overal form of the building.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
KillerZavatar no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
hypertall, jeddah economic city, jeddah tower, kingdom tower, megatall, tallest

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu