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Old January 6th, 2014, 05:36 PM   #6781
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It's being built because Prince Al Waleed, is about to show the world, that he is THE MAN, from the land, called the middle east. And he is boldly doing so, without "Oil Money", and I am ecstatic that I will witness this great part of our history. Everything you guys above mention about why it shouldn't or can't be built, has already been in his thoughts, many, many years ago. This Prince has pushed himself to the very top percentile of the wealthiest people of the world so I, and many other people should have faith, that he knows what he's doing. lets pretend for a second that he doesn't, is it going to affect you or me? Not in the least. Will he be homeless and completely bankrupt? Hell no. After all, if he somehow completely blows through his 30 billion dollars, he will still have Kingdom Tower to call home Not too bad huh
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Old January 6th, 2014, 05:40 PM   #6782
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Don't forget Local tourism is big in Saudi Arabia
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Old January 6th, 2014, 05:42 PM   #6783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4npower View Post
It's being built because Prince Al Waleed, is about to show the world, that he is THE MAN, from the land, called the middle east. And he is boldly doing so, without "Oil Money", and I am ecstatic that I will witness this great part of our history. Everything you guys above mention about why it shouldn't or can't be built, has already been in his thoughts, many, many years ago. This Prince has pushed himself to the very top percentile of the wealthiest people of the world so I, and many other people should have faith, that he knows what he's doing. lets pretend for a second that he doesn't, is it going to affect you or me? Not in the least. Will he be homeless and completely bankrupt? Hell no. After all, if he somehow completely blows through his 30 billion dollars, he will still have Kingdom Tower to call home Not too bad huh
Lol alwaleed only own 33% of kingdom city project
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Old January 6th, 2014, 06:02 PM   #6784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4npower View Post
It's being built because Prince Al Waleed, is about to show the world, that he is THE MAN, from the land, called the middle east. And he is boldly doing so, without "Oil Money", and I am ecstatic that I will witness this great part of our history. Everything you guys above mention about why it shouldn't or can't be built, has already been in his thoughts, many, many years ago. This Prince has pushed himself to the very top percentile of the wealthiest people of the world so I, and many other people should have faith, that he knows what he's doing. lets pretend for a second that he doesn't, is it going to affect you or me? Not in the least. Will he be homeless and completely bankrupt? Hell no. After all, if he somehow completely blows through his 30 billion dollars, he will still have Kingdom Tower to call home Not too bad huh
So it's built for PERSONAL reasons? That doesn't sound right knowing that Prince Alwaleed is a very business savvy person and he only builds something he knows would make him a decent profit.
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Old January 6th, 2014, 06:08 PM   #6785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmarBeirut View Post
OK, I'm gonna get a lot of hate over this, but it's just my personal opinion. I just don't see a REAL reason why this tower should be built in the first place. I mean yes Saudi Arabia is a VERY wealthy place and YES it has enough money to build 20 of these things easily. BUT you do NEED a reason to build such things because an empty 1000m tower wouldn't be nice. I'm not saying that it WOULD be empty, but usually foreign companies prefer not to go to Saudi Arabia because of the social and political climate. Even the climate itself. Yes, Dubai too had no VALID reason for BK, but they did it to increase tourism and place Dubai and the UAE on the map to become a global business, trade, travel and leisure hub. With it's MORE relaxed laws it was easier for it to become so. Saudi Arabia has no tourism in terms of foreigners going there for pleasure. A mere 3-4 day business trip is the norm in SA. What I'm saying is that I don't see the point in Kingdom Tower being built because Jeddah isn't a global financial and tourism hub (in my opinion and according to my research), and to build a 1000+m tower in your city, you have to be sure that people COME to it, otherwise it's pointless. Sure this hype from building the first 1000m tower will benefit Jeddah and place it on the global map (maybe but not definitely), but people would still PREFER not to come because of Saudi Arabia's "hostile" environment towards non-muslims and foreigners. This is my PERSONAL and HUMBLE opinion on an issue. I am NOT hating and I am NOT ridiculing, all I am doing is portraying an opinion on something. Don't hate. Thank you.
I think these megatall skyscrapers aren't worth it anyway, no matter where you build it. They look good, and it's rather easy to show off with them.

As for me personally, I don't really like the KT, it's way too Burj Khalifa-esque for me. But I still hope it gets built, the more skyscrapers on the globe the better.
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Old January 6th, 2014, 06:10 PM   #6786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hqho1671 View Post
Don't forget Local tourism is big in Saudi Arabia
Since I'm not from Saudi and I only know what I hear and read, forgive my naivety, but isn't toursim in Saudi, either local or foreign, limited due to the strict islamic laws? I mean what would you DO in the tower? The observation deck would only show the vast desert, since Jeddah doesn't have a major skyline (similar to Dubai's) and the restaurants won't be different from those offered elsewhere in the Kingdom. There is no clubs or lounges. Will there be fountains similar to BK's? Any "entertainment" venues? Anyways I'm not hating, I'm just expressing a concern. I might be wrong since I don't actually live in Saudi but I have many people who do and THEY tell me it's very restrictive and not fun at all. Thank you
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Old January 6th, 2014, 07:27 PM   #6787
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SA needs to learn and follow the path of UAE to succeed!! Sheikhs in UAE are the smartest and hopefully El waleed of SA will learn something from the changes they made in there countries and it is then KT will get the recognition it deserves. I am not trying to be offensive, I am just talking based on what I hear and I read
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Old January 6th, 2014, 07:55 PM   #6788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmarBeirut View Post
OK, I'm gonna get a lot of hate over this, but it's just my personal opinion. I just don't see a REAL reason why this tower should be built in the first place. I mean yes Saudi Arabia is a VERY wealthy place and YES it has enough money to build 20 of these things easily. BUT you do NEED a reason to build such things because an empty 1000m tower wouldn't be nice. I'm not saying that it WOULD be empty, but usually foreign companies prefer not to go to Saudi Arabia because of the social and political climate. Even the climate itself. Yes, Dubai too had no VALID reason for BK, but they did it to increase tourism and place Dubai and the UAE on the map to become a global business, trade, travel and leisure hub. With it's MORE relaxed laws it was easier for it to become so. Saudi Arabia has no tourism in terms of foreigners going there for pleasure. A mere 3-4 day business trip is the norm in SA. What I'm saying is that I don't see the point in Kingdom Tower being built because Jeddah isn't a global financial and tourism hub (in my opinion and according to my research), and to build a 1000+m tower in your city, you have to be sure that people COME to it, otherwise it's pointless. Sure this hype from building the first 1000m tower will benefit Jeddah and place it on the global map (maybe but not definitely), but people would still PREFER not to come because of Saudi Arabia's "hostile" environment towards non-muslims and foreigners. This is my PERSONAL and HUMBLE opinion on an issue. I am NOT hating and I am NOT ridiculing, all I am doing is portraying an opinion on something. Don't hate. Thank you.
Its being built to show who has the biggest cahone's. Pure and simple. It makes no economic sense, just as the Burj didn't. If these things were being built for economic reasons you would see usable space all the way or at least almost all the way to the top.....like most of the Chinese megas we see being built. This building, much like the burj, is a statement of ego and pride.

That being said, its his money....if he wants to build it, then he should go for it.
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Old January 7th, 2014, 12:12 AM   #6789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmarBeirut View Post
OK, I'm gonna get a lot of hate over this, but it's just my personal opinion. I just don't see a REAL reason why this tower should be built in the first place. I mean yes Saudi Arabia is a VERY wealthy place and YES it has enough money to build 20 of these things easily. BUT you do NEED a reason to build such things because an empty 1000m tower wouldn't be nice. I'm not saying that it WOULD be empty, but usually foreign companies prefer not to go to Saudi Arabia because of the social and political climate. Even the climate itself. Yes, Dubai too had no VALID reason for BK, but they did it to increase tourism and place Dubai and the UAE on the map to become a global business, trade, travel and leisure hub. With it's MORE relaxed laws it was easier for it to become so. Saudi Arabia has no tourism in terms of foreigners going there for pleasure. A mere 3-4 day business trip is the norm in SA. What I'm saying is that I don't see the point in Kingdom Tower being built because Jeddah isn't a global financial and tourism hub (in my opinion and according to my research), and to build a 1000+m tower in your city, you have to be sure that people COME to it, otherwise it's pointless. Sure this hype from building the first 1000m tower will benefit Jeddah and place it on the global map (maybe but not definitely), but people would still PREFER not to come because of Saudi Arabia's "hostile" environment towards non-muslims and foreigners. This is my PERSONAL and HUMBLE opinion on an issue. I am NOT hating and I am NOT ridiculing, all I am doing is portraying an opinion on something. Don't hate. Thank you.
I think you are right, but look at it from the other perspective. This tower and the whole city around it is built like they did in Dubai, but because of Saudi Arabia's self imposed isolation they remain empty, but extremely expensive to maintain. So they will have no choice but to open up the country and allow foreign business to invest, or let this new expensive infrastructure decay. Human beings are stubborn and once an idea gets stuck in the head, they can't change. But this huge project, once completed, will force the Saudi's to change whether some of them want to or not. I don't know what Dubai was like before the 1990's but I assume it was like Saudi Arabia, but look at it now, it is an international city. I think Dubai was the "spark" that has made the other Gulf States look at themselves and ask "What exactly are we doing with our money?" Having billions of dollars is useless if you do nothing with them. I for one am glad they are doing something with it that in my opinion will have beneficial long term effects for the country. There is a saying in the USA, "Build it and they will come." Since the ancient pyramids that statement has stayed true.
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Old January 7th, 2014, 12:32 AM   #6790
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And I think "religions" are the main obstacle facing any race on earth! with due respect to all religions, they are all created to maintain people under the religious leaders control nothing more! I am not saying there is no God, I am saying that the more you separate religion from politics, more any country will evolve and progress in all levels, religion didn't bring anything but blood and chaos to the world, anyhow, SA needs to relax its laws in order to attract and garner international recognition.

P.S: I am not talking abt Islam, but all religions, as well Christianity, All of them in some point in history caused bloodshed and suffering.

Peace out
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Old January 7th, 2014, 12:49 AM   #6791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmarBeirut View Post
So it's built for PERSONAL reasons? That doesn't sound right knowing that Prince Alwaleed is a very business savvy person and he only builds something he knows would make him a decent profit.


Yes and no, but obviously more on the no side. If you re-read my post a little closer, specifically the part where I wrote...
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4npower
"This Prince has pushed himself to the very top percentile of the wealthiest people of the world so I, and many other people should have faith, that he knows what he's doing."
you'll realize, I'm saying exactly what you are. People that are self made billionaires don't generally make bad investment decisions, especially when pretty much their entire fortune has been made through investments.
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Old January 7th, 2014, 10:50 AM   #6792
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Guys, when discussing if projects of this sort should be built or not, there's a rule of thumb that has applies pretty much to all supertalls and in particular in developing cities: from a financial point of view, a supertall building is useless. As a developer, you can not make money from it within any acceptable time frame.
Unless you see it bigger and you develop the area around your supertall properly as well. And that's exactly what Emaar has done with Burj Khalifa. They don't make their money on BK itself, but on the fantastic Downtown Dubai area around it which got a lot of it's appeal from the presence of BK.

I don't see this happening with Kingdom Tower. It stands pretty much on its own with nothing remotely interesting or attractive within miles around, so it will not improve tourism or business in Jeddah. It is of no use for the local (often far from wealthy) population, so it pretty much only benefits the egos of a small few and largely contributes to the image that the world has of Saudis (i.e. that they don't know what to do with their money).

Many come with the counter argument that it shouldn't always be about money, but yes it should. If you're spending this much dough and get only very little in return, certain bells in your head should start ringing.

As an engineer, the idea of a 1km structure still turns me on though, and I'm glad I was able to work on it, even if it was only for a little while.
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Old January 7th, 2014, 02:59 PM   #6793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOldBlackMarble View Post
I think you are right, but look at it from the other perspective. This tower and the whole city around it is built like they did in Dubai, but because of Saudi Arabia's self imposed isolation they remain empty, but extremely expensive to maintain. So they will have no choice but to open up the country and allow foreign business to invest, or let this new expensive infrastructure decay. Human beings are stubborn and once an idea gets stuck in the head, they can't change. But this huge project, once completed, will force the Saudi's to change whether some of them want to or not. I don't know what Dubai was like before the 1990's but I assume it was like Saudi Arabia, but look at it now, it is an international city. I think Dubai was the "spark" that has made the other Gulf States look at themselves and ask "What exactly are we doing with our money?" Having billions of dollars is useless if you do nothing with them. I for one am glad they are doing something with it that in my opinion will have beneficial long term effects for the country. There is a saying in the USA, "Build it and they will come." Since the ancient pyramids that statement has stayed true.
True, Dubai hasn't always been the "center of now" as it's described now, but it has allowed foreigners to purchase property which maximized its international appeal to the mass public. On the other hand Saudi Arabia is contemplating restricting foreigners stay in the Kingdom which would truly limit its appeal to the international crowd who buy in such skyscrapers (BKs buyers are mostly Indians, Iranians and Saudis!). Read this article and you would understand my point. http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/saudi-...ears-1.1274695
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Old January 8th, 2014, 11:52 PM   #6794
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Originally Posted by hqho1671 View Post
Don't forget Local tourism is big in Saudi Arabia
Local *and* GCC tourism whose citizens require no visa or passport to visit the country. The extended Muslim market alone is huge enough with 11 million pilgrims visiting nearby Mecca and Medina each year.

Don't get me wrong, I still think this is, in essence, just a big dick measuring contest but saying building the tower has absolutely no merit is a bit of a stretch. No matter how rich a person/company is, they wouldn't build something of this magnitude if it wasn't feasible (and potentially profitable) enough.
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Old January 8th, 2014, 11:53 PM   #6795
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The state of international non-pilgrim oriented tourism in the country is atrocious of course but that is unlikely to change anytime soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel900 View Post
SA needs to learn and follow the path of UAE to succeed!! Sheikhs in UAE are the smartest and hopefully El waleed of SA will learn something from the changes they made in there countries and it is then KT will get the recognition it deserves. I am not trying to be offensive, I am just talking based on what I hear and I read
"El waleed" (his father actually) already learnt something decades ago. Their faction in the Royal House has no say in how the country is run though so things in Saudi Arabia won't be changing to become more UAE-esque anytime soon.
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Old January 9th, 2014, 01:34 AM   #6796
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Old January 9th, 2014, 01:56 AM   #6797
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Old January 9th, 2014, 02:09 AM   #6798
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this shot is circa 10 months old, according to google earth
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Old January 9th, 2014, 02:22 AM   #6799
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you are right..


it's a last google map update


[IMG]http://i39.************/io3wqd.png[/IMG]
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Old January 9th, 2014, 02:46 AM   #6800
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Such vanity! This one is all about breaking the 1000 meter threshold. These towers are like measuring sticks of the ever increasing income inequality of the world. It is becoming exponential now. Soon the power elites will reach escape velocity, safely circling the globe, leaving the rest of us to choke in a polluted planet of their own making.
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