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Old June 27th, 2014, 09:57 PM   #8001
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Old June 27th, 2014, 11:00 PM   #8002
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I think this is kind of a gross example of the power a country whose economy is based completely on oil revenues has to waste resources on such an over the top construction project. Anybody could hire the best architects in the world, acquire all the resources necessary and skilled labor to build such a magnificent structure if they sat of a sea of oil. Does it really say anything about the nation itself though? It's hardly an achievement, it just shows what money can buy.

That being said I guess it's a good experiment for the rest of the world to see how such a tall structure can be put to efficient use. :0
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Old June 27th, 2014, 11:23 PM   #8003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewp View Post
I think this is kind of a gross example of the power a country whose economy is based completely on oil revenues has to waste resources on such an over the top construction project. Anybody could hire the best architects in the world, acquire all the resources necessary and skilled labor to build such a magnificent structure if they sat of a sea of oil. Does it really say anything about the nation itself though? It's hardly an achievement, it just shows what money can buy.

That being said I guess it's a good experiment for the rest of the world to see how such a tall structure can be put to efficient use. :0
Well that's one way to look at it. Not a very good one though

They aren't building this to lose money or to show off... That would be ridiculous. It's an investment. The Burj for example was less about making money off from tenants and more built to draw more development, businesses and tourism to Dubai and it must have worked because Kingdom tower would not be under construction if it hadn't.
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Old June 27th, 2014, 11:37 PM   #8004
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The same could be said for the Empire State Building when it was constructed. It sat empty for decades.
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Old June 27th, 2014, 11:39 PM   #8005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewp View Post
I think this is kind of a gross example of the power a country whose economy is based completely on oil revenues has to waste resources on such an over the top construction project. Anybody could hire the best architects in the world, acquire all the resources necessary and skilled labor to build such a magnificent structure if they sat of a sea of oil. Does it really say anything about the nation itself though? It's hardly an achievement, it just shows what money can buy.

That being said I guess it's a good experiment for the rest of the world to see how such a tall structure can be put to efficient use. :0
It's investment, for when the oil runs out in that area especially, so that the city and country can feed off of tourism as this tower will sure put the city on the map! Most people I know have never heard of this city
It will draw in business as well, so that the city can survive long after the oil has gone; which should also eventually grow into the poorer areas which in turn will help everyone
It's Jeddah preparing for the future; a vanity project some may call, but with a purpose... you have to spend money to gain more
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Old June 27th, 2014, 11:48 PM   #8006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewp View Post
I think this is kind of a gross example of the power a country whose economy is based completely on oil revenues has to waste resources on such an over the top construction project. Anybody could hire the best architects in the world, acquire all the resources necessary and skilled labor to build such a magnificent structure if they sat of a sea of oil. Does it really say anything about the nation itself though? It's hardly an achievement, it just shows what money can buy.

That being said I guess it's a good experiment for the rest of the world to see how such a tall structure can be put to efficient use. :0



You are new here so i'll give you the benefit of the doubt about your ignorance of information about this project. Please take some time to educate yourself about the man that is building this project. Once you do your research, I'll expect you to come back and edit your post about the "oil revenues" part so you don't look foolish. I understand that it is easy for the uneducated, to assume that everything built in Saudi Arabia is built with "oil money", but there are those few cases where oil is not the the funding source.
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Old June 28th, 2014, 12:42 AM   #8007
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It seems people want these countries to spend 200 years developing their cities by first building dense lowrises, then demolishing those and building taller and taller. Apparently, that's the only way it makes sense to bring in business and investment.

You know, since there's no way NY and Chicago would have done the exact same thing if they had the technology at the time. Definitely not.
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Old June 28th, 2014, 01:49 AM   #8008
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It's investment, for when the oil runs out in that area especially, so that the city and country can feed off of tourism as this tower will sure put the city on the map! Most people I know have never heard of this city
It will draw in business as well, so that the city can survive long after the oil has gone; which should also eventually grow into the poorer areas which in turn will help everyone
It's Jeddah preparing for the future; a vanity project some may call, but with a purpose... you have to spend money to gain more
I am well aware it's for tourism however if they truly think that building giant sky scrapers in the middle of a desert will replace oil revenues in the future, I have to think their nuts. Saudi Arabian tourism is increasing but the vast majority of those tourists are from OTHER Arabian states and other Asian nations. There is just no way it's economically feasible to replace oil with pointy towers, at least In my opinion. On top of that, Saudi Arabia is probably the most undesirable place to go to considering is climate, and radical Islamic population where they stone women to death for witchcraft. You can build all the towers you want but people have to want to live in the city to live in the tower too. My point is, they should invest more in developing their technology sector or some sort of advanced production like Japan and Korea did instead of wasting money and resources on over the top projects which make saudi princes giggle.
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Old June 28th, 2014, 01:52 AM   #8009
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Originally Posted by 4npower View Post
You are new here so i'll give you the benefit of the doubt about your ignorance of information about this project. Please take some time to educate yourself about the man that is building this project. Once you do your research, I'll expect you to come back and edit your post about the "oil revenues" part so you don't look foolish. I understand that it is easy for the uneducated, to assume that everything built in Saudi Arabia is built with "oil money", but there are those few cases where oil is not the the funding source.
"Al-Waleed bin Talal bin Abdulaziz al Saud is a Saudi business magnate, investor, and philanthropist. He is a member of the Saudi royal family... Waleed is a nephew of Saudi King Abdullah, and a grandson of Ibn Saud, the first Saudi king."

The only reason why he's an investor is because he's rich as hell from being part of the monarchy which is only rich because of oil revenues. duh

Saudi Economy: 81% Crude Petroleum, 4.8% Refined Petroleum, 2.1% Petroleum Gas, the rest largely oil products and natural resources.

LOL I rest my case.
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Old June 28th, 2014, 01:56 AM   #8010
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Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
It seems people want these countries to spend 200 years developing their cities by first building dense lowrises, then demolishing those and building taller and taller. Apparently, that's the only way it makes sense to bring in business and investment.

You know, since there's no way NY and Chicago would have done the exact same thing if they had the technology at the time. Definitely not. [IMG]file:///C:\Users\William\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.gif[/IMG]
NY and Chicago became desirable locations to build sky scrapers in the first place because there was a demand for it. There is no demand for something like this in this tiny little desert town. Economic development becomes eratic when a third world country becomes immensely rich without the development of it's population.
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Old June 28th, 2014, 01:57 AM   #8011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
It seems people want these countries to spend 200 years developing their cities by first building dense lowrises, then demolishing those and building taller and taller. Apparently, that's the only way it makes sense to bring in business and investment.

You know, since there's no way NY and Chicago would have done the exact same thing if they had the technology at the time. Definitely not.
NY and Chicago became desirable locations to build sky scrapers in the first place because there was a demand for it. There is no demand for something like this in this tiny little desert town. Economic development becomes eratic when a third world country becomes immensely rich without the development of it's population.
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Old June 28th, 2014, 01:59 AM   #8012
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The same could be said for the Empire State Building when it was constructed. It sat empty for decades.
It was vacant because the Great Depression hit, not an accurate comparison.

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Originally Posted by rlw777 View Post
Well that's one way to look at it. Not a very good one though [IMG]file:///C:\Users\William\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.gif[/IMG]

They aren't building this to lose money or to show off... That would be ridiculous. It's an investment. The Burj for example was less about making money off from tenants and more built to draw more development, businesses and tourism to Dubai and it must have worked because Kingdom tower would not be under construction if it hadn't.
Uhm... they are indeed building it to show off in hopes of tourists.. that's the point. Like I mentioned before tourism is increasing between arab states and not of westerners or others traveling to see these buildings partly because they just started issuing tourist visas in 2013. I guarantee however that they will soon realize all these projects would be a waste of effort as tourism will never grow to a rate enough to replace their fountain black gold. [IMG]file:///C:\Users\William\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image002.gif[/IMG]






FORGIVE ME for not replying all in one post but for some reason it wouldn't let me do it >:/
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Old June 28th, 2014, 02:25 AM   #8013
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Old June 28th, 2014, 02:26 AM   #8014
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I can tell you for sure that if Dubai had never started building towers 30 years ago, there would have been no demand for anything there today. Nobody would even know what Dubai is. Development has to start somewhere, and believe it or not there is in fact demand for construction in desert cities as globalization increases. Poor people don't live in these city centers, they live in outer areas and construction here is irrelevant to their life. It's also mostly private investors that build, not the government. Even so, the population of Dubai and its tourism industry has exploded ever since it began building more and more. Jeddah can follow in its footprint with projects like the Kingdom Tower, which is designed to increase land value and attract business for the overall Kingdom City project.
The issue of Islamic extremicism has nothing to do with these developments and is the result of unfortunate traditional values. It's up to the people to drop these religious habits, not the government.

The idea that these cities only build to show off is a myth and simply untrue. Also, "tiny desert town"?
According to Google, Jeddah has 2.6 million people, which is close to 1/3 the population of London. It has a greater population than Toronto(2.5 million) and just under Chicago(2.7 million).
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Old June 28th, 2014, 02:42 AM   #8015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewp View Post
"Al-Waleed bin Talal bin Abdulaziz al Saud is a Saudi business magnate, investor, and philanthropist. He is a member of the Saudi royal family... Waleed is a nephew of Saudi King Abdullah, and a grandson of Ibn Saud, the first Saudi king."
The only reason why he's an investor is because he's rich as hell from being part of the monarchy which is only rich because of oil revenues. duh
Saudi Economy: 81% Crude Petroleum, 4.8% Refined Petroleum, 2.1% Petroleum Gas, the rest largely oil products and natural resources.
LOL I rest my case.




Dude, I'm not going to argue with you. I've researched the guy over and over. Your not the first person to come here and start yelling "Oil Tower, Oil Tower". Yeah, he is part of the Royal family, and might have had a little help getting started, but he made him self who he is, all on his own. He went to college, became well educated, and eventually started a company called Kingdom Holding Company. The companies investments in Petroleum is very, very small. Probably less then 1% of his total wealth. The guy has/had stakes in just about every large company in the world for the last 30+ years and doesn't get his income via the Saudi Economy and neither the Saudi economy or the Royal family is financing this Tower.
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Old June 28th, 2014, 03:53 AM   #8016
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I can tell you for sure that if Dubai had never started building towers 30 years ago, there would have been no demand for anything there today. Nobody would even know what Dubai is. Development has to start somewhere, and believe it or not there is in fact demand for construction in desert cities as globalization increases. Poor people don't live in these city centers, they live in outer areas and construction here is irrelevant to their life. It's also mostly private investors that build, not the government. Even so, the population of Dubai and its tourism industry has exploded ever since it began building more and more. Jeddah can follow in its footprint with projects like the Kingdom Tower, which is designed to increase land value and attract business for the overall Kingdom City project.
The issue of Islamic extremicism has nothing to do with these developments and is the result of unfortunate traditional values. It's up to the people to drop these religious habits, not the government.

The idea that these cities only build to show off is a myth and simply untrue. Also, "tiny desert town"?
According to Google, Jeddah has 2.6 million people, which is close to 1/3 the population of London. It has a greater population than Toronto(2.5 million) and just under Chicago(2.7 million).
Okay a couple of points: Nobody would know Dubai unless it had oil, period. When I say demand, I don't necessarily mean just the attractiveness of the geographic area, I mean demand by the population. Is there enough educated class workers that would occupy the office space in the tower? If it's residential, are there enough wealthy people that will buy up the apartments in the tower? For example in NYC, all the sky scrapers were generally built because because of demand and a desire to expand more space for office or residential development because the was a legitimate demand. This is due to New Yorks history as it developed as a port and financial hub in the US.

Mostly private investors.. not government. Hmm Well when the main investor who just so happens to be a family member of the monarchy which just so happens so happens to be an absolute monarchy yeeeaaah okay. Let's get real here these people are all connected, they're a royal family with absolute power for crying out loud. -_-

Another thing i'd like to point out though. Saudi Arabia's tourism is mostly religious and directed towards the pilgrimage to Mecca. That being said, apart from that the tourism with the destination of actually visiting these sky scrapers is something I would like to see some factual numbers on.

I never said it was the government's role to change the culture. In fact if they tried they'd probably be overthrown. They basically pay their citizens off to not riot on the streets. It's take more than a hundred years to change the attitudes of the Saudi population because frankly they're still in the middle ages.
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Old June 28th, 2014, 04:02 AM   #8017
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Dude, I'm not going to argue with you. I've researched the guy over and over. Your not the first person to come here and start yelling "Oil Tower, Oil Tower". Yeah, he is part of the Royal family, and might have had a little help getting started, but he made him self who he is, all on his own. He went to college, became well educated, and eventually started a company called Kingdom Holding Company. The companies investments in Petroleum is very, very small. Probably less then 1% of his total wealth. The guy has/had stakes in just about every large company in the world for the last 30+ years and doesn't get his income via the Saudi Economy and neither the Saudi economy or the Royal family is financing this Tower.
If you don't want to argue then don't reply an expect me not to respond, especially when you infer that I am ignorant of what I'm talking about, LOL.

Yes I'm sure I'm not the only one who realizes that these are indeed oil towers.

".. might have had a little help getting started..." ??

That's like saying Paris Hilton had a little help getting started on her singing career. lmfao

I don't think you get the point. There would be no Kingdom Holding Company without a rich person to start it. Who is that person? A Saudi Royal. Why is the Saudi Family filthy rich? Oil. It's not that difficult to follow the chain of wealth.
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Old June 28th, 2014, 04:05 AM   #8018
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Alright, let's get back on-topic.
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Old June 28th, 2014, 04:11 AM   #8019
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Why does everybody know about Dubai, but not about Riyadh? Why are there posters of Dubai icons on airport walls? Would the same publicity exist it it was nothing but shacks and oil rigs? Dubai's economy now thrives from tourism, oil is second place. There are lots of rich people in Dubai (and no, not all from oil) and they demand new residentials. Rich people also attract business, and visa versa.

And there are a lot of bankers tied to the American government (who have the politicians in their pockets, actually) that are linked with property developers and real estate moguls in the US. So does Barack Obama call for new buildings to be built?

A list of attractions in Dubai: (shocking they're not just skyscrapers)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...tions_in_Dubai

If their extremist religious lifestyle isn't the fault of the government, as you said, (these not issues in Dubai or Jeddah, btw) then you can't tie them with skyscraper building. Bringing up the point that these countries shouldn't build tall buildings, simply because their population acts differently from your own, is a racist concept.
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Old June 28th, 2014, 06:15 AM   #8020
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Why does everybody know about Dubai, but not about Riyadh? Why are there posters of Dubai icons on airport walls? Would the same publicity exist it it was nothing but shacks and oil rigs? Dubai's economy now thrives from tourism, oil is second place. There are lots of rich people in Dubai (and no, not all from oil) and they demand new residentials. Rich people also attract business, and visa versa.

And there are a lot of bankers tied to the American government (who have the politicians in their pockets, actually) that are linked with property developers and real estate moguls in the US. So does Barack Obama call for new buildings to be built?

A list of attractions in Dubai: (shocking they're not just skyscrapers)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...tions_in_Dubai

If their extremist religious lifestyle isn't the fault of the government, as you said, (these not issues in Dubai or Jeddah, btw) then you can't tie them with skyscraper building. Bringing up the point that these countries shouldn't build tall buildings, simply because their population acts differently from your own, is a racist concept.
Why are there posters of Dubai icons on airport walls? Probably because it's home to Emirates air and the Dubai International airport one of the biggest hubs that connect travel from Europe to Asia?

Dubai's economy does not "thrive" on tourism that is a complete fallacy. It's thrived initailly on oil (Abu Dhabi had most of it) and they thrived on being the bankers of that oil. Now they DO have tourism however the majority of that tourism comes from neighboring states much less international tourism. What they really do thrive on now is a mixture of tourism but more importantly, real estate, manufacturing, trade and transportation (Eremites Air, DIA). All of which have been developed by oil money.

Now that is a far stretch to compare that with the Saudi royal family directly involved in funding the Kingdom Tower I must say xD

yeah nice attraction, my cousin went to Dubai and said the beaches reeked of oil and were filthy. Persian Gulf is pretty gross. But I guess that personal experience doesn't count for much.

I never tied the skyscraper with the extremist population??

I simply inferred that the Saudi family could use their wealth, which they have I give credit but should do more, in educating their population more and break down the population's archaic ideology so it can further advance their economy by having a more advanced population and getting women involved in the workforce more. But at this rate they still can't even drive, let alone get respectable jobs.

Point is, I think their towers are a misuse of the wealth they have been so lucky to acquire.

oh and not agreeing with an ideology is not 'racist' because ideologies are not... races... -_-
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