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Old April 20th, 2010, 07:47 PM   #1141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldWorldResident View Post
... i am one of those skyscraper lovers. But "higher" is not the equivalent of "better". Good architecture comes up with its requirements.
Really ? Because if you think about, higher is actually better (with good architecture obviously).Going vertical helps the environment (not trying to sound like en environmentalist) and brings more value to land, etc. But what i don't get is : "Good architecture comes up with its requirements" Yes, it has it's requirements. But i don't understand why you said that, when we haven't even seen the official render....
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Old April 20th, 2010, 09:04 PM   #1142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helghast View Post
Really ? Because if you think about, higher is actually better (with good architecture obviously).Going vertical helps the environment (not trying to sound like en environmentalist) and brings more value to land, etc. But what i don't get is : "Good architecture comes up with its requirements" Yes, it has it's requirements. But i don't understand why you said that, when we haven't even seen the official render....
Like 120 years ago the people thought higher is better and first of all they were right. The higher they build, the more space they created and the more efficient they build. That was the beginning of the highrises. But this calculation has its limits. The higher you build the more lifts you need, which lowers the available space, just to give one argument. The most effective buildings have like 60 stories. (thats what a study says i read some time ago. unfortunately i can't find it.) So 80 or 100 stories might still be fine, but those who say that a 200 story building is a efficient building do not have the faintest idea.

Quote:
And for you OldWorldResident. If you really want to find porpouse in constructing such a tower you can put this different way: that they will build this to attract worlds attention, becouse, lets be honest, this is the only reasonable porpous. Just look at the burj khalifa, i think it did its job, it made dubai recognasible brand, right?
So here you have a point. They build burj khalifa to increase tourism and thats fine for me. I like it though it's a huge hothouse in a desert. But this "residential shortage" argument really gets me upset.

Ok lets stop here and let us wait what will happen.
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Old April 20th, 2010, 11:59 PM   #1143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldWorldResident View Post
Like 120 years ago the people thought higher is better and first of all they were right. The higher they build, the more space they created and the more efficient they build. That was the beginning of the highrises. But this calculation has its limits. The higher you build the more lifts you need, which lowers the available space, just to give one argument. The most effective buildings have like 60 stories. (thats what a study says i read some time ago. unfortunately i can't find it.) So 80 or 100 stories might still be fine, but those who say that a 200 story building is a efficient building do not have the faintest idea.


The argument about the lifts and available space is not much of an argument. because most that all that has been figured out ( for the most part). Elevators have been advancing so rapidly for the past 10 years that a 200+ story skyscraper could be possible without the lost of valuable space. It's been said by many architects. It's all about the economics. And it's not so much of the space that keeps buildings from not going 200 floors' high. it's also the structural systems. if Bill Baker of SOM did not invent a new structural system, the Burj Khalifa wouldn't be possible. I do see many more tall buildings using this new structural system. just becuase how effective it is with both floor space and dealing with wind,etc. It's been said by the most recognized architect (Adrian Smith) for tall buildings, that a Mile high is possible with today's engineering. i really don't think you understand what your talking about. for one, about the floor space and elevators. because if you where truly a person that had interest in skyscrapers. you would know that there has been Major advancements in elevator technology. which helps with the whole situation of not much occupiable space.
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Old April 21st, 2010, 12:31 AM   #1144
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So you really do believe that they will build it to avoid the problem of residential shorteges? residential shorteges on a desert? And the best option is to build 1km tall tower?

Well, never mind, some strict facts about how right you are about lifts impact on floor area:

old wtc (single tower): hight: 415m, floor area: 350 000 square meters
burj khalifa: hight: 828m, floor area: 464,511 square meters.

I think that ends discution.
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Old April 21st, 2010, 02:16 AM   #1145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
So you really do believe that they will build it to avoid the problem of residential shorteges? residential shorteges on a desert? And the best option is to build 1km tall tower?

Well, never mind, some strict facts about how right you are about lifts impact on floor area:

old wtc (single tower): hight: 415m, floor area: 350 000 square meters
burj khalifa: hight: 828m, floor area: 464,511 square meters.


I think that ends discution.
Those figures are way off,

From CTBUH,

Burj Khalifa:
gross floor area 309,473 m² / 3,331,249 ft²
usuable floor area 232,105 m² / 2,498,439 ft²

As for the original WTC towers, they were 4.4 million sq ft (408,000 sq m)usuable space.
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Old April 21st, 2010, 04:30 AM   #1146
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Hi all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldWorldResident View Post
... i am one of those skyscraper lovers. But "higher" is not the equivalent of "better". Good architecture comes up with its requirements.
Hi Old.
I think higher is better - just my opinion for no other reason than I am a skyscraper lover. That being said I agree from an architecture point of view higher doesn't mean better. IMO the BK has it all. I hope the design for this project will do it's planned height justice and coming from Smith I'm confident it will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spectre000 View Post
Those figures are way off,

From CTBUH,

Burj Khalifa:
gross floor area 309,473 m² / 3,331,249 ft²
usuable floor area 232,105 m² / 2,498,439 ft²

As for the original WTC towers, they were 4.4 million sq ft (408,000 sq m)usuable space.
Hi Spectre.
Going by the figures I have that number doesn't include the podium. The common misnomer is to call the 3 base tiers the podium and there are another 186,000 sq. m. in the base tiers.
I have :
Tower 279,000
Base 186,000
Total 465,000
As for the "usable" number - I would like to know how they arrive at that figure.

Of course because the BK has a complex series of setbacks and tapers to a point it doesn't have the area of the old WTC towers. Don't get me wrong - I loved the twins but structures as tall as this project is will most likely taper down as well.

I hope we get a design to drool over soon.


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Old April 21st, 2010, 06:14 AM   #1147
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The old twin towers were 208 ft x 208 ft, 43,264 sq ft x 110 floors = 4.795 million sq ft. Now that's impressive.

I can't wait to see what Adrian Smith comes up with. The BK is great, but to me it's a little too needle-like.
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Old April 21st, 2010, 06:29 AM   #1148
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It probably won't be as needle-like as burj, but still needle, for sure. Just remind yourself proposed SOMs design for kingdom tower, also pre-designs shows needle-like tower. I must say though that i would like something different from needle too. When everybodys hated the old nakheel tower design i kind of liked it. When really high tower is wide too, the impression of the size is even bigger
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Old April 22nd, 2010, 01:40 AM   #1149
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The nakheel tower, now I am sorry to be so graphic, but to me it looks too chode-ey u know?
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Old April 26th, 2010, 10:31 AM   #1150
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So this is confirmed now that they're going for a design & build delivery. Expect 2 years delay and 2 years more to start actual enabling works
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Old April 27th, 2010, 06:12 PM   #1151
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[I]The contract was initially tendered out as a DB contract. In Q1 2010, the contract type was changed into construction. JV of Hyder Consulting and Arup is the project consultant. Bechtel is the PMC, and Adrian Smith and Gordon Gill Architecture is the project architect.

In March 2010, Kingdom Holding selected Adrian Smith and Gordon Gill Architecture as the project architect for the project.

14 April 2010 was the bids submission deadline for the construction contract.


compleet article...
http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/04/bur...kyscraper.html
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Old April 27th, 2010, 06:20 PM   #1152
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No, after Samsung droped bid, it was extended to April 28, so tomorrow is the day.

btw there is some on topic article on meed, but I'm not a subscribber so I can't read it.

http://www.meed.com/sectors/construc...005912.article
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Old April 28th, 2010, 08:48 AM   #1153
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Bid deadline extended for world’s tallest tower contract

Bidders have until 28 April to respond following two week extension

The bid deadline for the contract to build the 1-kilometre Kingdom tower on the outskirts of Jeddah has been extended until the 28 April.

The original bid deadline was 14 April, but the submission date has been delayed by two weeks to give bidders more time to prepare.

The prospective bidders include South Korea’s Samsung Corporation with Dubai-based Arabtec Construction, the local El-Seif Engineering & Contracting and Belgium’s Six Construct, the local Saudi Oger, and the local Saudi Binladin Group (SBG).

US-based Adrian Smith & Gordon Gill Architecture has been selected as the architect for the project.

Dubai-based Emaar is managing the development of the tower for the local Kingdom Holding. Emaar is also managing the 23-square kilometre Jeddah Kingdom City, which will be built around the Kingdom Tower.

Kingdom’s tower will be more than 400 metres taller than Saudi Arabia’s tallest building, the 577-metre tall Makkah Clock Royal Tower, which will be finished in August this year. It is being built by another bidder for the Kingdom tower scheme, SBG. Construction on 70 of the hotel’s 76 storeys has now been completed.

If the Kingdom Tower project goes ahead, the tower will replace Emaar’s Burj Khalifa in Dubai as the world’s tallest building (MEED 7:4:10).
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Old April 28th, 2010, 08:57 AM   #1154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buyckske Ruben View Post
[I]The contract was initially tendered out as a DB contract. In Q1 2010, the contract type was changed into construction. JV of Hyder Consulting and Arup is the project consultant. Bechtel is the PMC, and Adrian Smith and Gordon Gill Architecture is the project architect...
I understand that since the beginning KH & Emaar had no preconceived idea on procurement method for project.
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Old April 29th, 2010, 11:21 AM   #1155
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ok who is going to build it then?
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Old April 29th, 2010, 04:53 PM   #1156
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Korean Press Released(2010.4.29)

Arabtec-Samsung Consortium give up Kingdom Tower's Construction.

삼성물산, 사우디 세계 최고층 '킹덤타워' 입찰 포기


발주처 요구 조건 맞지 않아"...1100m 높이, 부르즈칼리파보다 200m 높아

삼성물산 건설부문이 주요 해외 프로젝트로 적극 추진해 왔던 사우디아라비아 세계 최고층 빌딩 '킹덤 타워'의 입찰을 포기한 것으로 확인됐다.




29일 건설업계와 외신에 따르면 삼성물산은 사우디아라비아의 투자회사 킹덤홀딩이 사우디 제2의 상업도시 제다에 건설키로 한 1100m 높이의 킹덤타워 프로젝트 입찰에 참여하지 않기로 했다.




이 초고층 빌딩은 사업비 15억 달러 규모로 올 초 완공된 아랍에미리트(UAE) 두바이의 부르즈칼리파(828m) 보다 더 높은 세계 최고층으로 지어질 예정이어서 그동안 주목받아왔다.




삼성물산은 부르즈칼리파를 비롯해 말레이시아 페트로나스타워와 대만의 타이페이101빌딩 등 세계 초고층 건설 사업에 주력해와 이번 입찰 불참은 의외라는 게 업계 반응이다.




UAE 최대 건설사인 아랍텍과 컨소시엄을 구성해 수주전에 참가한 삼성물산은 지난해에 이어 이번 달 초에도 입찰 제안서를 제출하며 적극적 행보를 보였다. 그러나 발주처의 요구 조건이 맞지 않자 결국 불참키로 했다. 발주처인 킹덤홀딩은 개인 재산이 130억 달러(한화 15조원)에 달하는 알왈리드 빈 탈라 사우디 왕자가 최대주주인 투자회사다.




삼성물산 관계자는 "부속 건물을 추가로 지어야 하는 등 조건이 맞지 않아 결국 포기하기로 했다"며 "다른 사우디에서의 사업 추진에는 지장이 없을 것"이라고 말했다.




삼성물산 컨소시엄이 입찰 포기 의사를 밝힘에 따라 사우디 업체인 엘세이프 엔지니어링과 손을 잡은 벨기에 베식스, 사우디 현지기업인 오게르·빈라딘이 수주 경합을 벌이게 됐다.




한편 킹덤타워의 시행과 설계는 부르즈칼리파에 참여했던 업체들이 선정됐다. 설계는 미국 시카고 소재의 '아드리안 스미스 앤 고든 길'이 맡기로 정해졌으며 시행사로는 UAE 최대 개발업체인 이마르 프로터티즈가 참여한다.


Samsung Corporation, Saudi Arabia the world's tallest 'Kingdom Tower' bid up


Client did not meet the requirements "... 1100m high, 200m higher than BOURGES Khalifa


Samsung Corporation, the construction sector as a major international projects have been promoting the Saudi Arabia, the world's tallest building 'Kingdom Tower confirmed that the bid was abandoned.




29 days, according to the construction industry and Foreign Investment Company of Samsung Saudi Arabia Kingdom Holding, the commercial city of Jeddah in Saudi Arabia Part 2 will measure a height of 1100m Kingdom Tower project has decided not to participate in the bidding.




The project cost $ 1.5 billion high-rise building completed earlier this year as the United Arab Emirates (UAE) Dubai BOURGES Khalifa (828m) will be higher than the world's tallest being built in the meantime has been noted.




Samsung BOURGES Khalifa, as well as the Petronas Towers in Malaysia and Taiwan, including Taipei 101 Building, the world focused on high-rise construction projects and the bid to attend the industry's reaction is surprising.




Sign up to UAE United Arab Tech Construction sujujeon participated in the consortium last year, followed by Samsung choedo this month to submit proposals and the move was positive. When he did not fit the Client's requirements, but eventually decided to attend. Kingdom Holding, a private property Cause of order 130 billion (15 trillion won Hanwha) alwalrideu nearly empty Tala Saudi prince bought up shares in the owner investment.




Samsung official said, "to be able to build additional buildings, such conditions do not match the end decided to give up" and "any other business in Saudi Arabia will not affect the promotion," he said.




Samsung consortium bidding for shutting down the doctor gave up and holding hands in Saudi engineering firm elseyipeu besikseu Belgium, Saudi local businessmen have been looking into contention ohgereu, binradinyi weeks.




The Kingdom Tower, the design of the trial and who participated in BOURGES Khalifa was named companies. Design of Chicago, the United States' Adrian Smith & Gordon Road was determined to leave the UAE include sihaengsa yimareu pro teo Tease up the developer to participate.





oh no! Burj Khalifa's Construction team gave up.
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Old April 29th, 2010, 05:08 PM   #1157
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Well, if not them some else will do the job. But whats more interesting in that news is the height:

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29 days, according to the construction industry and Foreign Investment Company of Samsung Saudi Arabia Kingdom Holding, the commercial city of Jeddah in Saudi Arabia Part 2 will measure a height of 1100m Kingdom Tower project has decided not to participate in the bidding.
Shall we change the title of thread?
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Old April 29th, 2010, 05:16 PM   #1158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
Well, if not them some else will do the job. But whats more interesting in that news is the height:



Shall we change the title of thread?
uhm... see later... I think we should not change height of Kingdom Tower's Thread title before Exact Height release.

Press represents Falsity & Truth.
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Old April 29th, 2010, 05:36 PM   #1159
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this news's Point

Factor of Samsung Consortium's Bid

Samsung-Arabtec Consortium don't operate Tower Development and Expansion of Kingdom City(Neighborhood of Kingdom Tower-Urban Development-Kingdom City All District).... because Samsung can work only Main Tower's Development and can't contract Neigborhood Development(except Main tower)... Samsung said this is orginally not Real Contract and Kingdom city including Neigborhood(2,3 stage Development) will take many time and Construction Money...
this is same that Incheon Tower's Co-workers(Samsung and Hyundai) will develop Songdo International City 6,8 District(151 Incheon Tower & Songdo Landmark city) including 151-stories Tower....

Finally,Samsung cancelled Kingdom City's Main-Contraction because of Extreme Developer's Requirements.
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Old April 29th, 2010, 05:42 PM   #1160
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and Two Consortiums...

After Samsung=Arabtec Consortium gave-up Tower's Contract,two Consortiums remain...

Final Contract's Candidates
Saudi El-seif Engineering & Belgium Besix Consortium

Saudi Ogre & Binladin Group(SBG) Consortium

Osama Binladin(Famous Arab Celebrity) participate in Stock Financial Committee of Binladin Group.

is height 1100m?
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