sneak peak of ST3 ;-)

[citruspastels]

Well... my version of it anyway

(updated)

So I was driving around my lovely hood (north Seattle) today and was having a great time visualizing where light rail could go. Sound Transit 2 includes money for planning studies here and I really hope they get it right because there are some beautiful places here with fantastic growth opportunities.

Here is the area I am looking at-



ok, here is the update: made a compromise switching phinney ave with 15th/holman, and then added a streetcar that serves the densifying greenlake and phinney neighborhoods in addition to woodland park/greenlake by connecting them to light rail stations.

(light rail line is in green for the lost green line monorail RIP )



got the base image for that map from this awesome map!-

http://soundtransit2.com/

updated with an even further northern connection to lynnwood/alderwood mall

[img]

Here is the original idea with the light rail going up phinney/greenwood-



One place I noticed that light rail should DEFINITELY go, a place that Sound Transit doesn't have much planning for is Greenwood/Phinney Ridge/Crown Hill. These are great, growing, and densifying urban centers that would benefit IMMENSELY from a direct connection to the light rail system. Not sure how it would connect with the rest of my plan though.


Here are close ups of possible station positioning from east to west-

Wallingford Station (Subway)

Wallingford is a mostly residential, single family home neighborhood, but it the houses are fairly close together, it has a solid main street and other pockets of denser urban centers, and it rapidly becoming more dense, especially to the south, near Gasworks Park and along Stone Way. It has also been densifying in places along 45th.



Fremont Station (Subway)

We all know Fremont! Funkee and vibrant. Definitely in the process of building up.



Ballard Station (At-Grade or Elevated)

Ballard is going to get a station eventually whether I talk it up or not so here it is-



As far as grade allignments go, I would see it being a subway from Brooklyn to Wallingford on 45th, down Stone Way to Fremont, and then to Ballard, but switching to either at-grade or elevated track in between Fremont and Ballard.

As far as the line up Phinney/Greenwood goes, I would see it being at-grade running in the street with traffic, or possibly running in a separated median. There is plently of room on either side of those streets for extra lanes (getting rid of parking lanes that is) and would be much cheaper. Since it is the end of the line and does not connect anywhere further north, it would not need to go that fast and would not necessarily need to run elevated or underground.

Whaddayall think?

Vote ST2/RTID!

[Bond James Bond]

Phinney Ridge won't happen - same route (essentially) as the now-dead monorail. Also, your route along that street doesn't really go anywhere. No point in having a light rail line if it doesn't go to some major destination. Your route just kinda . . . ends.

Ugh I don't want to think about putting a light rail line along NE 45th. It would ruin Wallingford. I don't think there's enough room there anyway.

[mhays]

They'll pick something straighter. Basically Market and 45th.

No sense putting a line along the waterfront. You want passengers from both sides, not one side. So you go through the middle of a neighborhood, not the edge.

It wouldn't cross the Ballard Bridge. They'd need a new bridge. Presumably this would be west of the bridge somewhere.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by Bond James Bond

Ugh I don't want to think about putting a light rail line along NE 45th. It would ruin Wallingford. I don't think there's enough room there anyway.

I think it would be a streetcar, or maybe a dual-length streetcar. That would do find along 45th. It would need to share a traffic lane rather than having a separate lane, because the 45th community wouldn't accept the loss of parking.

[WESTSEATTLEGUY]

Cool map. Great plan, except the Crown Hill one wouldn't happen if it was just a individual line. It should be connected to the overall light rail plan.

[citruspastels]

do you mean a subway under 45th would ruin wallingford, or did you think i meant a rail ON 45th? (which would be utterly impossible i think. its one of the most crowded roads in seattle)

also, of course the crown line would have to connect to the system, i just don't know what would be most efficient... probably to the ballard station so it could go straight downtown.

as for the fremont station, i know its near the water, i just think its the most dense part and since the rail will be traveling through the neighborhood anyway... i think it would be a huge mistake to skip fremont and wallingford, even if my station allignment isn't quite right.

[Bond James Bond]

^
Oh I see, yeah a subway would be better.

Personally I think a line going up Phinney is already too close to the soon-to-be line going up I-5. I think a line going up NW15th would be better.

But again we're talking about the same route as the now-gone monorail. So it's really not going to happen. At least not for 30 years.

[citruspastels]

thinking about the monorail still makes me really mad

greenline was a great place for a line, it was just too unique a technology to be financially feasible.

also, i don't know about 15th, but phinney and greenwood seem like they would have the capacity to build a dedicated light-rail lane on them rather than needing to elevate or bury, making it a much happier option financially then monorail could ever have been.

plus it could potentially hit up the zoo (major tourist attraction) in addition to going further north without hitting carkeek park. i could even see it going as far as edmonds, where i know there is a sounder stop, but i could think of plenty of people i have met in ballard who either commute to or from edmonds and have no need for a commuter rail to downtown. i am sure the same could be said for people living in queen anne, magnolia, crown hill, phinny ridge, greenwood, bitter lake, and shoreline, who want to go from one of those locations to the other. or lets say someone living in everett, sounder-ing into edmonds, and then transfering to a light rail so he can get to his job in greenwood, without having to backtrack from downtown.

[taiwanesedrummer36]

Stay tuned for my version of ST 3,4,5,6,....i've been working on it for two months.

[sequoias]

Too bad the monorail failed, it would have been nice if it wasn't for the corrupt politics of the monorail committee

[citruspastels]

ok, here is an update: made a compromise switching phinney ave with 15th/holman, and then added a streetcar that serves the densifying greenlake and phinney neighborhoods in addition to woodland park/greenlake by connecting them to light rail stations.



got the base image for that map from this awesomely informational map!-

http://soundtransit2.com/

[SeattleRising]

One thing to consider: Greenwood is essentially built on top of peat. The soil sucks- as it loses water it compacts and the surface sinks. They might decide to go around it up 15th and up Holman instead of Greenwood Ave.

http://www.seattle.gov/dpd/Planning/...sits/Overview/

http://www.seattle.gov/dpd/stellent/...pdp_020300.pdf
(4mb PDF)

[citruspastels]

yeah, plus 15th/holman serves the area further west better. with my streetcar idea though, it serves a very large region indeed!

however, i am a bit saddened by the loss of a station at 85th and greenwood, because that would be beautiful for bringing people right to the heart of greenwood.

also, can't seem to get that pdf to work, do you have a link to the part of the dpd website you downloaded it from?

[CityView Jim]

In the original and early plans, I think ST is looking for stops that are not places where people are coming from, but also going to. Phinney Ridge has the zoo and that's about it. The whole west corridor you propose are pretty much stops where people will come from and not go to (unless returning home from work). The ST1 has pretty much destination points: UW, downtown, stadiums, Boeing, and the Airport.

[citruspastels]

well, st1 was also in desperate need of political support, so it needed mainly hot spots like uw and the stadiums to pass. it also included a huge amount of expensive subway and elevated track whereas the one i'm proposing is all the cheaper at-grade option. i think that once st1 is done, there will probably be alot of clamoring for more light rail if it is anything like other cities that have picked it up, and sound transit will be more free to bring it into slightly less well known destinations.

some of the north line destinations include phinney (with a streetcar to the zoo/greenlake), greenwood (urban village), north greenwood (carkeek park), bitter lake, shoreline community college, and edmonds

[CityView Jim]

Again, these are all great "getting on" points, but if we depend on voters to approve, this may be difficult. That is, unless we tax only those in the affected areas. Then you may have a winner!!

Now say the line extends all the way to Alderwood, then you also would have a winner with several points along the way.

[citruspastels]

good idea!

ok, update with lynnwood/alderwood mall connection

[CityView Jim]

Good plan! But keep also in mind that if there are too many stops, that will slow service times a bit. I'd cut the station just north of the ferry terminal stop (9th Ave S?).

[taiwanesedrummer36]

Well, here it is.

My plan includes extensions of Sounder routes, massive expansion of light rail, and considerable new bus rapid transit routes.

Sounder (two-parallel black lines) will be extended north into Marysville and Arlington, and extended south into Dupont, Lacey, and Olympia. New stations include a station in Shoreline/Richmond Beach, Boeing Access Road, and North Sumner.

Light rail (colored-thick lines) will be added all over the place. Here's the list:
- Green Line: Seattle-Issaquah
- Red Line: Arlington-Lakewood
- Yellow Line: West Seattle-Bellevue-Mukilteo
- Yellow Branch Line: Mukilteo-S. Everett
- Orange Line: Kent-Covington-Maple Valley
- Silver Line: Gig Harbour-Tacoma
- Purple Line: Lakewood-Puyallup-South Hill
- Brown Line: Downtown-Ballard-Northgate-Lake City-Kenmore-Bothell-Woodinville-Monroe
- Blue Line: Ballard-Redmond
- Golden Line: Edmonds Station-Mountlake Terrace
- Gray Line: Woodinville-Snohomish-Lake Stevens

Several streetcar lines (small blue lines) will be added and/or expanded too. Here's the list:
- Federal Way Streetcar
- East Tacoma Streetcar
- Federal Way Streetcar
- East Seattle Streetcar
- Eastlake Streetcar
- Bellevue Streetcar
- Evergreen Streetcar
- Everett Streetcar
- Everett Branch Streetcar

BRT routes include (black-dashed lines):
- 531 Line: Lakewood Crossing-Arlington
- 528 Line: Marysville-East Marysville
- 2 Line: Everett-Lake Stevens-Snohomish-Monroe
- 99N Line: Everett-Seattle
- 96 Line: Cathcart-Paine Field
- 527 Line: Everett-Mill Creek-Bothell
- 164th Line: Ash Center-Mill Creek
- 524 Line: Edmonds Station-Lynnwood
- 104 Line: Mountlake Terrace-Lake Forest
- 185th Line: Shoreline
- 145th Line: Shoreline-Lake City
- 15th Line: Mountlake Terrace-Northgate
- 124th/Willows Line: Totem Lake-Redmond
- 908 Line: Kirkland-Redmond
- 148th Line: Redmond-Bellevue Eastgate
- 8th Line: Bellevue
- Magnolia Line: Magnolia
- E. Redmond Line: Redmond-Novelty Hill
- Sammamish Line: Sammamish Pleateau
- Coal Creek Line: Bellevue-Renton
- 140th Line: Renton-Fairwood-Kent
- Trans-Valley Line: Tukwila-Renton
- 99S Line: Tukwila-Tacoma
- 208th Line: Kent
- 277th Line: Kent
- 320th Line: Federal Way
- 18 Line: Federal Way-Auburn
- 164 Line: Enumclaw-Auburn
- LLH Line: Lakeland Hills
- 410 Line: Puyallup-Bonney Lake
- 704 Line: Lakewood-Sunrise
- 7 Line: Tacoma-Spanaway
- 167 Line: Kent-Puyallup
- 181 Line: Kent-Tukwila

I think that's all of it.

[Tcmetro]

What are the black dashed lines?