PUBLIC Transport

[master_klon]

Originally Posted by 108

Auckland city is way too hilly to ride around if you're just some casual rider, you wind up having to not only walk up hills but push a push bike... not a great way to see a city. This was tested already, no?

Once Queen Street is pedestrianised, this cycle business will be pumping. They could then introduce some more strategically placed cycle stations to allow for more flexibility.

[Svartmetall]

Originally Posted by KiwiRob

I'd like to see the statistics which back up this claim. I remember when cycle helmets were made manditory, it was after a spate of accidents involving kids cycling to school, I was about 14 at the time, we all hated having to wear them.

Well, a number of studies have actually shown that the use of mandatory cycle helmets reduced cycling numbers between 1.8 and 2.2 times when introduced in Australia, thus this might account for some of the drops in fatalities. However, this report also notes that if car drivers wore helmets then the risk of head injury upon collision would be reduced by 17 times, so why don't car occupants use helmets? Simple answer? Not necessary, it's just inconvenient. All injuries could be mitigated by walking round in a padded bubble or if cars were forced to only crawl at 5kmph. There will always be an amount of risk in everything that we do and so helmets should be a personal choice on push bikes, not mandatory.

There is also a good, properly cited literature review here that has concluded that helmets actually don't offer any real benefit and mandatory helmet regulations actually only discourage cycling.

Here is a more opinion-based piece that shows how likely one is to be injured by cycling and the rate at which a helmet saves lives. Turns out, according to the statistics, that cycling is safer than walking, so should pedestrians wear helmets to mitigate injury? Again, same with car drivers.

Take a look for yourselves and make up your own mind. I used to be a cycle helmet wearer in Britain for cross-country trips (not short trips), however, after I started looking into the statistics behind helmets and looking at cycling practices in countries with high modal shares for cycling (coupled with the low death rate when statistics are analysed per km travelled per cyclist between countries like The Netherlands vs. Australia), the case for mandatory helmets simply doesn't stack up. Not wearing a helmet for a push bike isn't about being "cool", it's about making cycling easier. If one takes a bike to the local shops to pick up some bread/milk/whatever, one doesn't want to be lumbered with a helmet. Also, helmets with cycle share schemes make things a bit more difficult and discourage use.

[KIWIKAAS]

I wore a helmet once when cycling in NZ. I can't say I liked it.
I've been living in The Netherlands for 20 years, clocked up many thousands of km's and never worn a helmet. I can't say I have everf felt under protected. I've come off my bike a few times but usually it's my butt that takes the beating so a helmet wouldn't help much. Ofcourse the cycling infrastructure and driver awareness is considerably better though which makes a big difference. If helmets were manditory in Holland, it would certainly make cycling a less attractive option although I don't think I would stop cycling because of it.
Interesting note Svarty about the drop in cycling in Australia when helmets were made compulsary.

[KiwiRob]

Originally Posted by Svartmetall

There is also a good, properly cited literature review here that has concluded that helmets actually don't offer any real benefit and mandatory helmet regulations actually only discourage cycling.

Which in my opinion can only be a good thing, the average adult cyclist, especially when they come in pairs are idiots, it's should be illegal for cyclists to ride two or more abreast. The amount of idiots who wobble all over the road on a bike is amazing.

It reminds me of the idiot on a protest ride against helment use in the US, he had an accident where he went over the front of his bike, had he been wearing a helment he would have lived.

[Svartmetall]

Originally Posted by KiwiRob

Which in my opinion can only be a good thing, the average adult cyclist, especially when they come in pairs are idiots, it's should be illegal for cyclists to ride two or more abreast. The amount of idiots who wobble all over the road on a bike is amazing.

It reminds me of the idiot on a protest ride against helment use in the US, he had an accident where he went over the front of his bike, had he been wearing a helment he would have lived.

This diversion about cycling in pairs has nothing to do with your original point about helmets, Rob. Discouraging cycling is foolish really as cycling is a healthy and useful way for people to move around short distances and should be encouraged.

As for cycling two abreast, in the New Zealand road code cyclists are allowed to "own the lane" and take up a whole lane for their use as they are classed as a road vehicle and must be treated as such by law by other road users.

[viinniie]

anyone caught without a helmet needs to get a fine.. its the seatbelt a bike is missing pretty much

[Svartmetall]

Originally Posted by viinniie

anyone caught without a helmet needs to get a fine.. its the seatbelt a bike is missing pretty much

So do you think car users should wear helmets given it has been shown that head injuries of car users can be reduced to 17 times the level now if they wore helmets?

Did you read the links I posted above at all out of interest?

[viinniie]

Originally Posted by Svartmetall

So do you think car users should wear helmets given it has been shown that head injuries of car users can be reduced to 17 times the level now if they wore helmets?

Did you read the links I posted above at all out of interest?

don't be silly mate.. so whats gonna protect a rider from smacking his head on the pavement, road, or a truck? tell me and just face whats reality!
we aint in Europe this is NZ.

[nilut]

Originally Posted by viinniie

don't be silly mate.. so whats gonna protect a rider from smacking his head on the pavement, road, or a truck? tell me and just face whats reality!
we aint in Europe this is NZ.

Um..so your saying cyclist in Europe (or pretty much every other country in the world where they ride bikes fine without helmet laws - It's not just some fashionable euro thing) don't have to deal with pavements, roads or trucks?? Or is it their superior "European designed' skulls that protect them?

Look, the point is to allow cyclist to choose to wear helmets or not. It's a silly law that does more harm than good for cycling safety overall - and that's a fact if you like it or not.

[Mr_kiwi_fruit]

The Council has been hard at work touching up the cycling and pedestrian lanes along Quay and Tamaki Drive. Quite a few areas of the pavement have been fixed in areas where the trees had started to lift the surface.

image hosted on flickr

Cycling lane by craigsydnz, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Cycling lane by craigsydnz, on Flickr

[viinniie]

Originally Posted by nilut

Um..so your saying cyclist in Europe (or pretty much every other country in the world where they ride bikes fine without helmet laws - It's not just some fashionable euro thing) don't have to deal with pavements, roads or trucks?? Or is it their superior "European designed' skulls that protect them?

Look, the point is to allow cyclist to choose to wear helmets or not. It's a silly law that does more harm than good for cycling safety overall - and that's a fact if you like it or not.

no u silly person lol .. just cause they dont have to wear them over there doesnt mean we need to be as careless.. lol fashion or a brain? stay alive or die.

[KIWIKAAS]

Originally Posted by Mr_kiwi_fruit

The Council has been hard at work touching up the cycling and pedestrian lanes along Quay and Tamaki Drive. Quite a few areas of the pavement have been fixed in areas where the trees had started to lift the surface.

image hosted on flickr

Cycling lane by craigsydnz, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Cycling lane by craigsydnz, on Flickr

Now I understand why cyclists need helmets in NZ

[viinniie]

[Svartmetall]

Originally Posted by viinniie

no u silly person lol .. just cause they dont have to wear them over there doesnt mean we need to be as careless.. lol fashion or a brain? stay alive or die.

But the statistics I posted above just go to show that helmets actually don't protect you half as much as one thinks. It was found in Australia that after mandatory helmets were required that head injuries on cyclists fell by 13%. However, the number of head injuries for pedestrians involved in collisions fell by 13% over the same period as did the general road toll. This shows that the statistics collected on helmets are easily confounded simply by improving road conditions, road habits and the newer technology available with cars better able to cope with pedestrian collisions. Helmets have nothing to do with surviving a crash based on this kind of meta-analysis.

[viinniie]

so in the mean time.. wear a helmet people.. until cycling environments improve in Auckland.

[KiwiRob]

Originally Posted by Svartmetall

But the statistics I posted above just go to show that helmets actually don't protect you half as much as one thinks. It was found in Australia that after mandatory helmets were required that head injuries on cyclists fell by 13%. However, the number of head injuries for pedestrians involved in collisions fell by 13% over the same period as did the general road toll. This shows that the statistics collected on helmets are easily confounded simply by improving road conditions, road habits and the newer technology available with cars better able to cope with pedestrian collisions. Helmets have nothing to do with surviving a crash based on this kind of meta-analysis.

But a cyclist running into the side of a car is still going to be in major shit if they don't wear a helmet.

[viinniie]

lol let them find out the ruthless way.. we tried to tell em rob. fuck it

[AK-Sam]

Road safety really needs to be addressed before cycling is viable, helmets or not. (I agree compulsory helmets for adults is a bad idea)
I've been driving a huge 4wd around lately and having the increased height/visibility has really shown me how many crap drivers there are on our roads. The number of near misses and red light runners is unbelievable!

Driver education/ rule enforcement here has a long, long way to go before I'll feel safe cycling on a main road. By the looks of things, there are a lot of unlicensed/untrained drivers around.

Mopeds are a good solution in Auckland. 18V self-recharging electric motors are small, cheap & powerful enough now that adding them to a frame is not really a problem at all.

[Mr_kiwi_fruit]

Red light runners have become an everyday occurrence, and most of the time when I stop for an amber light a car in the next lane will still cross through the red even though they are 3 to 4 seconds behind me. It is such a huge contradiction - Aucklanders are some of the friendliest most helpful people I have met, who won't think twice about helping a stranger in need, BUT get them behind a wheel and the demons come out.

[viinniie]

Why is compulsory helmets for adults a bad idea?
That's the craziest thing I've heard in awhile to be frank

(this is for ak-sam)