Saladaeng Residence, 28 Storey : Sathorn

[Hitesh]

..

[phukethunter]

i think this developments pricing is a sign of a bubble...

[Kaxper]

this and pimarn mansion

[bantuekheum]

Unfailing cost and scarce land in CBD especially around mass transit

How much would be a unit developed on lands recently purchased by Raimond Land at 1.2 and 1.5 MB per sq.wa.?

The 185 Rachadamri plot was purchased at almost half of those and it will be asking at 300K/sqm for an average.

I am seeing 400-500K/sqm, still cheaper than other metropolitans for celebrities and buyers from middle east, Eurpoe HK or Singapore.

Living luxury next to station: Infinity, Pimarn, St. Regis, Pleanchit Residence and the Railmond Land project next to Center Point Wireless, it is a new luxury scheme coming....

[363885]

"luxury", lack of land in certain parts of BKK and convenience to public transport are all good reasons for price increases.

Nevertheless, when I purchased my first "luxury" condo in BKK in 2003, it was 80,000K and was at that time the most expensive in town (just before the Park and Athenee Residence were announced). Within these 5-years, the highest price condo in town has tripled in price to 240,000K, a whopping 25% growth per year. During the same period, Thai econocmy has grown about 5% per year, or 28% over 5-years. I find it puzzling that real estate has grown so much faster than the real economy, which indicates a speculative bubble to me.

In Shanghai, which is where I'm living now, the price for "luxury" condo in 2003 was about 30,000 yuan. At that time, everyone thought prices were overpriced, signalling a bubble. Over the past 5 years, the government has put in measures to slow down speculation. Currently, "luxury" condos are selling for about 40,000 to 45,000 yuan. That represents a growth of about 6% to 9% per year. China's GDP has grown about 10% per year. This indicates to me that over the past 5 years, property price growth has been reasonable, although I still believe it was on the high side back in 2003.

Nevertheless. at today's 250,000 baht in Bangkok, the price of a "luxury" condo has raced past Shanghai's in terms of price. Thus, I would be cautious whether BKK property prices are sustainable. After all, we're talking about a 135 sq. meters of condo for $1 million U.S. dollars.

[phukethunter]

Yes, the Pimarn project is another example of this bubble, and the price point exceeding the project/appreciation potential.

[PADTHAI]

Good point about Shanghai. There are lots and lots of Chinese millionaires as well as highly-paid foreign bankers and lawyers there who can support high prices. Bangkok does not have anywhere near the depth of foreign 'support' that China does (and prices are falling there now anyway!)

I have to say, that the shortage of land argument also does not hold true for Bangkok. This city is FULL of empty plots and under-developed locations. Almost anywhere you look outside the old town there is a site that could be redeveloped. Finally, as a parting aside, I simply cannot believe that anyone will seriously pay 300K + as an end user (rather than a flipper) for 185 Rajdamri. There are dozens of other buildings right alongside it (i.e., not exactly "exclusive"); it has a view of a lovely sporting facility you can't use, and also of the noisy skytrain (!); and it is nowhere near the BTS if you really want to walk.

I know USD1 million doesn't go as far as it used to nowadays, sadly, but you can still buy some fantastic property for that in some of the best cities in the world. The mega-rich with that kind of cash can opt for Sydney, Melbourne, Paris, London, or even New York (where prices are also tumbling now).

Again, I wish the very best to anyone who has taken a chance on this kind of development. However, what looks too good to be true usually is: millions of people all round the world are finally waking up to the fact that no-one really gets rich long-term by sitting around and speculating on property prices...not unless they spot the top, sell up, and rent!

[SKC]

For those who booked during pre-sales, does it still make sense to commit the purchase given the current financial turmoil ?

[Speed]

if you are looking to longer term.....to eventually live in it or use it for vacations (and late-night party crash pad)....then its fine to go for it if you like the building and location

but if you are looking for a quick flip for profit only...maybe its not so good....

[Kaxper]

Originally Posted by SKC

For those who booked during pre-sales, does it still make sense to commit the purchase given the current financial turmoil ?

i would think owners with units that are coming for transfer this year are those facing issues (obtaining funding for transfer or finding a buyer with cash/credit). for this project, i presume transfer in 2011 - by that time things will be looking much better.

[talassa]

Originally Posted by PADTHAI

Guys, I wish you all well, sincerely, and think that all those projects are Grade A. But I would like to point out that this behaviour of buying to 'flip' (i.e., sell on at a profit) has been a global trend - and yet is now proving a disaster in USA, Canada, UK, France, Italy, Germany, Ireland, Spain, and even China.

Much as I love Thailand, and wish to see Bangkok develop, I don't see what is different here that means that it won't be going the same way over the next 6 months...

A disgruntled sacked CEO of a major developer launched his own property firm and had no qualms about explaining to his new customers about the marketing strategy of his former firm.

According to him: a day or two following the sales launch of a new project, 50-60% of a building would be "sold out" according to the sales lady. A week later, it would be 80% with the larger sized units and penthouses being available at the highest valuation or blocked for company executives and families.

Before the interested buyer would step out of the sales office, sales ladies would say: "wait! a number of these units have been booked but no contract has been signed yet. In fact, what type of unit and floor are you interested in? perhaps I can call my friend who wants to sell".

Of course, the quoted price by "the friend" was much higher than the initial launch price. This is in line with the 20-30,000 baht per square metre appreciation, we are being told for the Saladeng project!

It is all smoke and mirrors. A large chunk of the 60 or 80% pre-sold units are held by company insiders, families and friends who receive timely information on sales progress and can take calculated risks as "flippers". This info is not available to the rest of the market.

I see two issues with all these flipping activity: one is disclosure of accurate information to interested buyers and the other potential tax fraud, since capital gains are taxable... but who gives a fxck?

I want to see those projects finalized and the resale prices quoted on unit transfer week, being supported by new buyers. Not to speak of building and unit specifications proven upon inspection.

[Zimoune]

WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHCIH DEVELOPER WE ARE TALKING ABOUT

[phukethunter]

This is similar to the tactics practiced in Hong Kong and to a lesser degree Singapore.

[Kaxper]

Originally Posted by phukethunter

This is similar to the tactics practiced in Hong Kong and to a lesser degree Singapore.

i have mixed feelings about this. frankly speaking, the banks need to see at least a certain % sold/reserved before allowing construction drawdown. this little game is i guess an industry acceptable format, without which very few building will be built. one way to gauge a condo's real success is to see how fast the resale units come (or not come) to the market. i have seen units booked during 'pre-launched' and then posted in bkk post literally a week after, competing with the developer itself. this is somewhat ridiculous. decent projects will see the resale units come into the market say six months prior to completion. everything is built on credit facilitating credit (in our global house of cards) which makes the current credit turmoil all that more frightening if not resolved.

[SKC]

Dear bantuekheum,

Did you actually make the 10% deposit following the pre-sales booking ? For me, I'm thinking seriously to sell my booking of 2-bedroom unit (front street view).

Anybody actually paid the 10% deposit ?

[Kaxper]

Originally Posted by SKC

Dear bantuekheum,

Did you actually make the 10% deposit following the pre-sales booking ? For me, I'm thinking seriously to sell my booking of 2-bedroom unit (front street view). Anybody actually paid the 10% deposit ?

okay .. both you guys just confirm to me that this project is toast ... there are no real buyers out there ... yet !

[bantuekheum]

Originally Posted by SKC

Dear bantuekheum,

Did you actually make the 10% deposit following the pre-sales booking ? For me, I'm thinking seriously to sell my booking of 2-bedroom unit (front street view).

Anybody actually paid the 10% deposit ?

We have just done contract-sign for 2 units and tried to get one more on the locked floors with discount.

EIA approved
SCIB loan approved
30% pre-sales even no public awareness yet
Other soon-to-launch B+ grade projects asking 120-170K
Fewer launch in 2009
BTS/MRT projects are still in demand but rare for super luxury

Why not?....

[SKC]

Thanks, bantuekheum. I'll have a lot of rethink before making final decision.

[Speed]

Originally Posted by phukethunter

I guess my point here is, while this is a good development (although it is not my taste)...I just do not think the price point is good value...and future capital appreciation is limited due to this aggressive price point set by the developer.

agree....if you are a quick flipper/speculator...be careful....but if you're a long term lifestyle buyer (for personal use)....why not?

Originally Posted by phukethunter

What value can we put on "home automation"? I am not sure this is a selling point for me. Can always install, but, it is a hassle.

home automation (like btchino systems) are not that expensive...but you had better be able to use your right brain for complex circuitry (and be one of only 9% of the population who are left-handed ) because the wiring systems and installs are a headache right!? (or get a super good installation team)....

[[*only 9% of population is left-handed...but both Obama and McCain are left-handed...and 4 out of the past 5 US Presidents left-handed....Clinton, Reagan, Bush Jr., Ford hmmmmm]]

Originally Posted by phukethunter

If we look at other good developments, the market appreciation has been significant. here are a couple examples:
The Infinity: pre-sale price 100k baht per/sq/me - now 175-190k
The Met: pre-sale price 110k baht per/sq/me - now 170-180k and will appreciate to 200k
The Park Residence: pre-sale price 110k baht per/sq/me - now 185-200k
(the above are averages)

too high on numbers...closer to B130K-B140K avg....

[bantuekheum]

web animation is up:

http://www.saladaengresidences.com/animation.html