MANCHESTER | Old Trafford Expansion | 96,000 | Pre-planning

[SteChol]

Originally Posted by LaLov

Image of the matchstick model from the Youtube vid earlier in the thread:


Doubt you'd get 96,000 in this one though.

Someone needs to send thhis to Sir Alex.

[eddyk]

To make him stay?


He'll be gone by the time this is finished.

[roninja1999]

Yeah but he could have a seat upstairs ;-)

[MoreOrLess]

Originally Posted by Isaac Newell

You are more likely to see a structure of luxury boxes with an overhanging seating section.

If they did go with stacked luxury boxes to avoid having to deal with the rail line I'd guess its more likey you'd see the reverse of that. That is boxes directly over the current stand(or a rebuilt version of it) and a smaller teir of seating above.

[Isaac Newell]

Originally Posted by MoreOrLess

If they did go with stacked luxury boxes to avoid having to deal with the rail line I'd guess its more likey you'd see the reverse of that. That is boxes directly over the current stand(or a rebuilt version of it) and a smaller teir of seating above.

that would create sightline problems for the seats above, they would have to be angled far too steep. the back seats would not see the near touchline.

[MoreOrLess]

Originally Posted by Isaac Newell

that would create sightline problems for the seats above, they would have to be angled far too steep. the back seats would not see the near touchline.

The stand infront of them is fairly deep though, if the stand behind was as steep as at the ends I wouldnt be supprized if there was space for 3 rows of boxes aslong as they werent espeically tall. If they built the directors boxes at the back not only would they be along way from the action but the view probabley wouldnt be very good unless they changed the design of the roof.

Really though the way clubs are going after the luxury market seems to be moving away friom boxes and towards seating with luxury dinning/bar facilties behind. I still think the most likey devolpment is a 2 teir design similar to the ends just with the first few rows of the second tier as luxury seating.

[Isaac Newell]

If you put the seating on top of the boxes, the roof design would probably have to be a "goalpost" to free up the space behind the stand for a tier of seating, otherwise the bigger cantilevers would interfere with the railway "airspace"

By stacking up the boxes and including a small tier of seating infront of them, the club could stick with a similar roof as exists at the present, slightly modified to slope down a little.

[andysimo123]

Originally Posted by eccles cake

check the last two paragraphs
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...m-demands.html

A lad found this. Seems the next move will be 76,000 to 82,000.

[eddyk]

He just mentions to corners in that...and not like...another tier on whatever the name of that side of the ground is.

[rureal]

if they do develop the south stand i hope they mirror the north. staium would look fantastic then! but i wonder what they would do about the new quads? would they build them to mirror the existing ones i.e. have that ugly wall running through them to make them look symmetrical. i think they would because if they made them seamless(as the existing quads should have been) it would make those walls stand out like a sore thumb.

[kacnie358]

Hey, I've got a question.. about south stand:

Is it possible that south stand will be bigger then the north one?
The 3rd tier: 5,000 and 19 rows. If the 3rd tier has got 40rows the capacity will increase up to 101,000!! (96+5) and beats the Camp nou!

[ccfc-4-life]

Originally Posted by kacnie358

Hey, I've got a question.. about south stand:

Is it possible that south stand will be bigger then the north one?
The 3rd tier: 5,000 and 19 rows. If the 3rd tier has got 40rows the capacity will increase up to 101,000!! (96+5) and beats the Camp nou!

i was thinking about this also, but i think the idea would be too expensive and take up way too much space - something old trafford isnt blessed with. Of course, it would be absolutely fantastic to see this happen but i doubt it very much

[berkshire royal]

Just a point. From the sounds of the proposed corner expansion it sounds like the two corners will be curled around 1/3 or 2/3 of the way for sightline reasons, this could mean that the next move after this would be a smaller second tier say 5-6,000 similar in size to the North Stand top tier taking capacity to just below 90,000 with the South Stand roof still being slightly lower than the rest of the stadiums roof, doing this could be cheaper then a full size tier or two tiers like the North Stand. Does anyone reckon this is a possibility? I reckon this would be a better capacity and option for MU.

[kacnie358]

i think that the best option for MU is to built south stand as big as it's possible.. becouse Old Trafford is always full and it will pay-off..

When the 2nd tier will be bigger the capacity could increase even up to 105,000.. Is it an amazing ?

[wearethefuture]

I can see where you are coming from berkshire royal as i think OT could be expanded as you have said without being affected by the trainline. As you see with the picture below, there would be enough space for a small second tier above the 'South stand', as there the offices/suites/boxes at the back of the stand that stick out some way when compared to the rest of the first tier (ie. compare main stand to corners).



However i personally think Utd should wait till they can rebuild (or extend) the main stand as large as they possibly can to maximise revenue and complete the redevelopment of Old Trafford, if they were to do this i think they would be the most powerfull club in the world with probably the best stadium as well. A legacy i think Sir Alex would love to leave behind him.



I also believe that a stand similar in shape/size to the North stand could be built in replace of the South stand, with the third tier overhanging the trainline supported by some clever engineering. With no affect on the trainline at all, however it is the thousands of extra fans access that would need to be thought about, hence the purchasing of houses the other side of the tracks, with bridges (i would imagine) feeding into the new stand. It would look incredible if it were to happen.

[berkshire royal]

I think my idea could be better then having a mirror North Stand.

From the noises that have been coming out of the club it sounds like the next phase of work at OT will involve making putting corners into the south-east + south-west quad areas but due to sightline problems these will only go round 1/3-2/3 of the way (unsure how tall they will be) this will leave a few options with the South Stand. They could construct a smaller tier which could potentially be done without going over the rail line also there would be no need to finish off the corners. Or they could build a bigger stand a copy of the North Stand with the corners getting finished off. With the smaller tier proposal construction time would be much easier + quicker.

I also would prefer this option because I personally would not want OT to be bigger then Wembley.
And also in simple business sense if OT had a capacity of around 100,000 that would be pushing the demand for tickets to the maximum, having a slightly capped capacity actually helps to fuel demand and ensures that every games is a sell out.
In my mind my idea would be the quickest and cheapest to construct, it would leave OT with a perfect capacity of around 85,000, as well as a potential increase in Suites. And I reckon something quite interesting could be done with some decent architecture and design work, I prefer individual stand design and I reckon having a unique smaller tier could look pretty good.

Obviously I'm not the one involved in the project and as I'm not a United fan I don't know all the facts it might be that even a small tier would go over the railway line and cost a huge amount.
I’m hope I am explaining what I have in mind well, not really sure if I am.
Although I can see the plusses of having a North Stand mirror I actually think it wouldn't look very good as well as also being extremely expensive.

[wearethefuture]

I think i understand what you mean and i think you also make a very good point about expansion and demand. As i am united fan i have no problem with OT being bigger than Wembley however .

With regards to the expansion of the two remaining corners i am slightly confused with the clubs fairly recent statement, something which you have rightly mentioned. As you say sightlines would prove to be an issue with the corners, which is why i dont understand why Utd themselves have said that this would be the next stage of redevelopment as i don't think it's possible. Unless of course they remove the south stand's roof completely, with the weather in Manchester being as it is, i can't see this happening! This is what i'm thinking of when you say 1/3 - 1/2 of the corner, maybe you can prove me wrong on that.

I guess they could taper around the corner, ie. gradually reducing from (say for example) 40 rows of the Stretford End's second tier to eventually 0, sloping down to meet the main stand. Slightly hard to explain, but i think that is possible, if not sligthtly unorthodox. It would also limit future expansion maybe, such as when they do develop the south (main) stand. Do you understand what i mean by this? I could maybe illustrate.

Although having said that i have just had an idea, where they could build the corner extensions, in preperation for the eventual south stand expansion and have "Void" areas, where the slightlines are such that you are unable to see a sufficient ammount of the pitch. With the South stand roof still intact, and the taper effect coming into play.

That is why i am slightly confused about the clubs statement, surely they would have to develop the south stand first, or at the same time as the corners in order for fans to be able to use the extended corners. I think the clubs statement is maybe to push along plans for the South stand redevelopment, stating that they can't expand any more till this has taken place, suggesting maybe that the council are limiting progress, although this is all purely hypothetical.

[kacnie358]

Is there any official plan of extending this stand? Any graphic visualization?
Or just MU fans speculations ?

[berkshire royal]

Thinking about what you said and also what we have for info and I remembered that there is a stadium that has something awfully like what Man U are proposing. Charlton When they expanded their North Stand built in the 2 corners even though there is a considerable difference in height between the North and Jimmy Seed Stand. Unfortunately I couldn't get a better pic but you can still see from this picture how Charlton resolved their issues regarding the differences in height although it will be on a worse scale I think this could be a template for us too see how it could work at Old Trafford.

image hosted on flickr


Regarding what you said about the sloping down roof do you mean something similair to the KC Stadium?



And with my idea in my mind I thought of a basic template of a stand that is extremely similar to the South Stand, which is the West Stand at Chelsea. It has the lower gradient that First Tier of the South Stand and also has two ends corners going right the way round meeting the West Stand. The construction process was also similar to what Man U are proposing in that the first tier was constructed before any of the additional tiers were built, to combat the problem of poor sightlines Chelsea just got rid of the roof on the Stand to Make sure that no one had an impeded view in the corner stand. Here is a pic of the stand I’m talking about.



My Proposal would be similar to this apart from that firstly I'd take away the top tier and the Second tier would be roughly double the size. Also the second tier would curl around slightly and there would be a small gap between where the corner and second tier meets. And the top of where the new quadrants meet the South Stand would be similar to the Charlton Corner with a bit of seating missing where the view would be severely restricted. This is just a basic idea but do you reckon this could work because to me this would be the most financially rewarding proposal.

I personally reckon a copy of the two quadrants and North Stand would look awful, this would be the more architecturally pleasing. With out wanting to sound too cocky I do think that my proposal would be perfect, there would even be room for future expansion.

[berkshire royal]

Originally Posted by kacnie358

Is there any official plan of extending this stand? Any graphic visualization?
Or just MU fans speculations ?

No visualizations, but there has been a few comments from the club regarding expansion it's purely speculation at this stage and probably will be for a long time yet.