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Old April 20th, 2017, 10:27 PM   #2061
ChrisZwolle
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Primćrrute 34 carries only 600 - 900 trucks (any vehicle over 5.8 m in length) per day.

I don't want to complain about a nice passing lane, but given the low volume of both overall traffic and heavy vehicles, it doesn't seem like an absolute necessity, but maybe it's a new design standard for roads that have a higher speed limit than trucks can legally drive.

The Netherlands built quite a bit of 100 km/h roads with no passing lanes (and often a passing ban) while having a substantial amount of truck traffic limited to 80 km/h, so in practice you can't drive 100 km/h on much of the trip.
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Old April 20th, 2017, 11:34 PM   #2062
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New access road to and from Stevns is being planned.

http://www.vejdirektoratet.dk/DA/vej...r/default.aspx


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Old May 3rd, 2017, 12:13 PM   #2063
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The network of 1300 emergency telephones along the Danish motorway network will be decommissioned this year. The usage is very low - even compared to other countries which have decommissioned their roadside telephone systems. In 2016, only 98 calls were made from them.

To compare, in Flanders there were 3200 calls in 2014 and in the Netherlands there were 35,000 calls on average over the past 10 years. The systems are being decommissioned there too.

http://www.vejdirektoratet.dk/DA/om-...ende-brug.aspx
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Old May 9th, 2017, 12:11 PM   #2064
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They are getting ready to put the final layer of asphalt on the rest of Křge Bugt Motorvejen.

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Originally Posted by bongo-anders View Post
They have put up a movable barrier in the southbound direction. The above image illustrates that there's room for a single lane in the opposite direction.

They have also put up 4 huge Variable Message Signs in the northbound direction, which will guide cars across the median.
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Old May 15th, 2017, 11:47 AM   #2065
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Illustration of the reversible lanes




And a video from onsite here
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Old May 15th, 2017, 12:32 PM   #2066
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Tell me, in Copenhagen downtown there are very few cars (modal share under 10%), where do those many cars from Köge Bugt motorway and other motor- and expressways (Roskilde, Helsingör, etc) drive to?
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Old May 15th, 2017, 12:57 PM   #2067
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Traffic flows are much more diffuse than suburb to city center. Most motorway traffic doesn't end up in the city center. Amsterdam has a similar situation, several ten lane motorways to the city but a low traffic city core.
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Old May 15th, 2017, 01:28 PM   #2068
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
Tell me, in Copenhagen downtown there are very few cars (modal share under 10%), where do those many cars from Köge Bugt motorway and other motor- and expressways (Roskilde, Helsingör, etc) drive to?
As the map shows, there are a lot of industrial and commercial areas around Copenhagen. The destination of the most inbound traffic is not the downtown.

In addition, the Křge Bugt motorway is a multiplex of two international routes, E20 and E47, and a route to the busiest airport in Scandinavia.
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Old May 15th, 2017, 03:30 PM   #2069
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I think the failure to understand how traffic flows really work is one of the reasons why increasing the modal share of public transport has failed all across Europe despite incredible amounts of money spent on public transport (especially relative to traveled kilometers).

The average car trip starts in some boring residential area and ends in some boring industrial park or commercial center. Public transport already captures a large share of traffic going to that exciting downtown, but many planners are in the bubble of a city center and think it can apply to all traffic on a motorway. This is where failed transportation policies start.
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Old May 15th, 2017, 04:22 PM   #2070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I think the failure to understand how traffic flows really work is one of the reasons why increasing the modal share of public transport has failed all across Europe despite incredible amounts of money spent on public transport (especially relative to traveled kilometers).

The average car trip starts in some boring residential area and ends in some boring industrial park or commercial center. Public transport already captures a large share of traffic going to that exciting downtown, but many planners are in the bubble of a city center and think it can apply to all traffic on a motorway. This is where failed transportation policies start.
This is true. For example, the Helsinki Metropolitan Area has almost doubled from 0.8 million people to 1.4 million since 1975. However, the number of passenger cars daily entering the downtown has remained flat, even slightly decreased, during the same period. Large commercial and industrial areas are located at the ring roads, or at the radials up to 30-40 kilometers from the central railway station. Still, the main effort is put on moving people to and from the downtown.

The coverage of the public transport is quite ok, but less attention is paid on travel times (except trams in the downtown). I have several possibilities for my daily commuting of 20 km one-way: bus+train+train, bus+bus+walk, bus+bus+bus, bus+bus, etc. They are not very competetive, because the trip duration is 60 minutes in minimum, which is pretty much more that the car travel of 20-25 minutes.
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Old May 15th, 2017, 08:04 PM   #2071
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I think the failure to understand how traffic flows really work is one of the reasons why increasing the modal share of public transport has failed all across Europe despite incredible amounts of money spent on public transport (especially relative to traveled kilometers).

The average car trip starts in some boring residential area and ends in some boring industrial park or commercial center. Public transport already captures a large share of traffic going to that exciting downtown, but many planners are in the bubble of a city center and think it can apply to all traffic on a motorway. This is where failed transportation policies start.
I agree to an extent, but the fact is that orbital journeys are generally to and from low density destinations, so they are very hard to serve via public transport. It's not that planners don't know that people make a lot of these journeys, it's just that they can't practicably serve them, so they focus on the radial journeys that do have the potential ridership to justify rapid transport.

The exceptions are very large and dense cities where even the orbital journeys have high ridership, and rapid transport can therefore have more expansive networks. Paris, Madrid and London would be obvious examples in Europe. The latter at least has a long term trend of increasing public transport usage and declining private vehicle usage, not just in the centre but in Outer London as well, so might be considered something of a public transport success (which it should be for the hundreds of billions thrown at it).
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Old May 15th, 2017, 08:21 PM   #2072
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TfL has some interesting statistics about London travel. For example, 48% of all trips start and end in Outer London. 77% of that is by car. However 81% of trips from Outer London to Central London is by public transport.

It is a good example of how public transport can well serve trips to the central core, but these are only a small share of all trips in a metropolitan area, hence the high automobile usage overall. The amount of travel on public transport is often overestimated by commuters because it is concentrated during a shorter time and on fewer routes compared to the much more dispersed automobile travel. Of course London is not the same as Copenhagen or Aarhus.

Increased ridership is not an indication per se of an increased modal share for public transport. Often road usage increases at the same percentage, but as it carries a much larger share of traffic, the amount of passenger kilometers traveled by car is much larger than that of public transport.

For example in the Netherlands, the growth of car traffic on the motorways in the past 4 years alone equals half of all train travel, when expressed in passenger kilometers traveled. Between 2013 and 2016, motorway travel increased by 7.2 billion passenger kilometers, whereas all train travel stands at 15.8 billion passenger kilometers. Denmark also has a significant growth of motorway travel in recent years.
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Old May 15th, 2017, 11:47 PM   #2073
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Unlike Amsterdam and the largest Dutch cities I know Copenhagen only a little bit. I know basically the Danish road network, I know both main long haul motorways (Cph - Kolding and Cph - Hamburg) run together between Köge and the city, however that quite impressive traffic density surely needs some destination :-) And I simple looked for those destinations. My question was not any way offensive I simply would like to know ;-)

Btw. don't forget Copehagen has a great rail network, I mean the S-tog, carrying some hundred thousands of passangers daily. It looks like those that have a destination downtown take the train, those that travel to the outskirts drive.
Is it right?
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Old May 16th, 2017, 12:20 AM   #2074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
TfL has some interesting statistics about London travel. For example, 48% of all trips start and end in Outer London. 77% of that is by car. However 81% of trips from Outer London to Central London is by public transport.

It is a good example of how public transport can well serve trips to the central core, but these are only a small share of all trips in a metropolitan area, hence the high automobile usage overall. The amount of travel on public transport is often overestimated by commuters because it is concentrated during a shorter time and on fewer routes compared to the much more dispersed automobile travel. Of course London is not the same as Copenhagen or Aarhus.

Increased ridership is not an indication per se of an increased modal share for public transport. Often road usage increases at the same percentage, but as it carries a much larger share of traffic, the amount of passenger kilometers traveled by car is much larger than that of public transport.

For example in the Netherlands, the growth of car traffic on the motorways in the past 4 years alone equals half of all train travel, when expressed in passenger kilometers traveled. Between 2013 and 2016, motorway travel increased by 7.2 billion passenger kilometers, whereas all train travel stands at 15.8 billion passenger kilometers. Denmark also has a significant growth of motorway travel in recent years.
London really has seen a dramatic change in modal share. In 1994 Public Transport had a 25% share, Private Transport 49%. In 2014 both were at 37% (p. 35 here). So it is something of an example of transition to a more public transport-orientated city, albeit in rather specific circumstances.
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Old May 16th, 2017, 01:43 AM   #2075
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Here is a short video, of how the mobile barrier works.

https://www.tv2lorry.dk/artikel/geni...al-mindske-koe
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Old May 16th, 2017, 04:50 PM   #2076
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Quote:
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Btw. don't forget Copehagen has a great rail network, I mean the S-tog, carrying some hundred thousands of passangers daily. It looks like those that have a destination downtown take the train, those that travel to the outskirts drive.
Is it right?
Generally speaking, that is the case. However it is quite easy to overlook that trips that don't start or end in the city core are much more numerous and dispersed, that's why car traffic overall has a 70-90% modal share in most European countries.

Public transport is most competitive with the car on routes that are taken the least, while most car trips are on routes that have a very large travel time difference between both modes. That's why increasing the speed of trains for example won't attract any significant amount of drivers. The weakest point are the overall door-to-door travel times, not the travel times between stations. If a 20 minute car trip takes 50-60 minutes by public transport, a 5 minute faster train ride isn't going to make a difference in competitiveness.

Another issue with public transport statistics is the methodology of reporting the number of trips. Are these journeys or unlinked trips? For example someone taking a bus to a station, then get on a train, switch trains to get to the destination takes one journey but three unlinked trips. Depending on methodology, it can inflate public transport usage statistics. Passenger mileage (or kilometrage if you will) is a better way of comparison, at least with driving.
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Old May 16th, 2017, 05:03 PM   #2077
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[DK] Denmark | road infrastructure • motorveje i Danmark

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Tell me, in Copenhagen downtown there are very few cars (modal share under 10%), where do those many cars from Köge Bugt motorway and other motor- and expressways (Roskilde, Helsingör, etc) drive to?



Beside what Matti says, HC Andersens Boulevard carrys over 50000 cars a day... thats through the CPH center..
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Old May 16th, 2017, 05:11 PM   #2078
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Generally speaking, that is the case. However it is quite easy to overlook that [...]
My question was about Copenhagen, but you couldn't resist to write something about public transport generally ;-D
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Old May 16th, 2017, 05:15 PM   #2079
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Beside what Matti says, HC Andersens Boulevard carrys over 50000 cars a day... thats through the CPH center..
Thanks.
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Old May 16th, 2017, 05:32 PM   #2080
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There are still plans to build an underground eastern ring road in Copenhagen.

https://www.trm.dk/da/nyheder/2017/f...estlig-ringvej

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