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Old March 19th, 2010, 05:25 PM   #521
kalaha
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I think the first alternative would is the best one.
Second will be number two, combined with number 9, if these are connected.

Number three and seven could work, if a new Lillebælt Bridge is build south of Kolding. Number four could work together with a new Horsens-Juelsminde-Bogense-Odense link.

I don't like number five and six, and I think these should only be chosen, if a Kattegat Bridge are decided.

I can't see the point in number eight. Who will drive that way?
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Old March 19th, 2010, 05:33 PM   #522
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I like number 6, that way the outlying region can also profit from a high-standard road. Also; is it likely that a motorway will get build through the Silkeborg area?

If I have to be honest, I think it's better to widen E45 to 2x3 between Kolding and Aarhus, and build a new motorway corridor from Esbjerg via Herning and Viborg to E45. I don't see how most alignment alternates on that map provide a real advantage to E45, so most traffic will stay on E45 anyway.
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Old March 19th, 2010, 05:34 PM   #523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalaha View Post


I think the first alternative would is the best one.
Second will be number two, combined with number 9, if these are connected.

Number three and seven could work, if a new Lillebælt Bridge is build south of Kolding. Number four could work together with a new Horsens-Juelsminde-Bogense-Odense link.

I don't like number five and six, and I think these should only be chosen, if a Kattegat Bridge are decided.

I can't see the point in number eight. Who will drive that way?

According to the screening report some 20.000-25.000 cars every day. But i tend to agree with you that something like No. 1 probably is the best, but anyway its is very early to say which one is the best. The report can at best be used to exclude some of the variants, especially no. 9, as it has no reflief effect on the E45 between Kolding and Århus whatsoever. Only on E45 south of Kolding where no major problems is likely. Furthermore i think no. 4 can be excluded as it does not contribute the solving the problems around Vejle, and probably also 5,6 and 7.
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Old March 19th, 2010, 05:39 PM   #524
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According to the screening report some 20.000-25.000 cars every day. But i tend to agree with you that something like No. 1 probably is the best, but anyway its is very early to say which one is the best. The report can at best be used to exclude some of the variants, especially no. 9, as it has no reflief effect on the E45 between Kolding and Århus whatsoever. Only on E45 south of Kolding where no major problems is likely. Furthermore i think no. 4 can be excluded as it does not contribute the solving the problems around Vejle, and probably also 5,6 and 7.
If you read the report, you will see, that number 9 is suggested as an extension of those other alternatives, who have a southern end in the westernmost parts of E20 Esbjergmotorvejen (2 and 5, maybe 3). Number 4 would be logic, if, as I wrote before, a new connection across Lillebælt via Juelsminde-Bogense is build.
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Old March 19th, 2010, 05:57 PM   #525
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Yes but Germany does not have any plans to extend the A23 towards the Danish border. That means no.9 will end nowhere. Secondly it is directly stated in the report that in order to have as much effect as possible on E45 around Vejle/Kolding, it will have to run relatively close to Kolding.

The proposed link Horsens-Juelsminde-Odense, in addition to be hugely expensive will only bring minor relief to the Kolding/Vejle area as only a minor fraction of the traffic on the Vejlefjord bridge are continuing all the way Horsens-Odense.
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Old March 19th, 2010, 05:58 PM   #526
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It's worth mentioning that Herning-Århus and Herning-Vejle will be all motorway in a few years. It's being build in stages, and all have either been build, are UC or have been decided. I've added them to the map, it's the two in different shades of orange:



I'll exclude route 5 already now, it doesn't really have any effect on E45. Wether there should be a motorway to Holstebro have nothing to do with this scenario. The thing about route 6 (and 7) is that they can re-use the Herning-Give part of the Herning-Vejle motorway, which makes it cheaper than the routes 1-4. It would also pass more cities/towns, where 1-4 more or less only pass Viborg, and could probably also pass Billund Airport closer. I also suspect there'll be quite a lot of problems with passes through "important" nature parts with 1-4, while 6 seems easier on the nature, atleast for everything south of Viborg.

If they only want to move cars from E45 to the new motorway, they should make it as far east as possible. I was however surprised be the little different in time between route 1 and 6, from Kolding to Viborg it's only like 5 minutes more if the route passes Herning instead of "Hærvejen" directly. Surely seems too early to through away alternative 6 to me.

And just to make it clear: I'm not saying a(nother) route by Herning is the best option, we're already well covered with motorways. But from these very early calculations, it would be too early to rule such a route out, considdering it's cheaper, shorter (new parts), probably easier on nature, would pass more cities and all that for the "price" of maybe a few mins and some ~3-5000 less vehicles moved from E45. But it really all too early to say....
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Old March 19th, 2010, 06:00 PM   #527
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Yes but Germany does not have any plans to extend the A23 towards the Danish border. That means no.9 will end nowhere.
Sure about that? I'm pretty sure the Germans are planning to extend A23 all the way to the border.
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Old March 19th, 2010, 11:10 PM   #528
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To improve the speed on the interconnecting countryroads in Denmark the suggestion is to make so called 'swedish' roads where you have 3 lanes and a devider. As shown in the eksample below.



Gr8 plan.. not sure about the chosen section... Routenumber 13 (Aaalborg-Viborg-Vejle) and 26 (Viborg-Århus) would be better.
Primary Route 14 already has had that system between Roskilde and Ringsted for many many years, so the suggestion is useless

Primary Route 6 uses the system as well between Roskilde and Gadstrup.
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Old March 20th, 2010, 12:31 AM   #529
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Sure about that? I'm pretty sure the Germans are planning to extend A23 all the way to the border.
Yes I am pretty sure they plan a couple of by-passes around small towns like Bredstedt but only as ordinary 2-lane roads. They do not plan any motorway.

Germany has a lot of other priorities than building motorways without any traffic.
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Old March 20th, 2010, 12:44 AM   #530
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The German B5 is a good road until Husum, where the "ausbaustrecke" ends, and you have to pass through a number of villages. It would be a good idea to build a new grade-separated 2+1 road on a new alignment north of Husum to the Danish border.

The Danish Route 11 is a pretty good road, although there are a number of villages, traffic is light and not a lot of truck traffic. I think a 2+1 road would be best, plus a number of bypasses around villages.
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Old March 20th, 2010, 12:46 AM   #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikolaj View Post
Yes I am pretty sure they plan a couple of by-passes around small towns like Bredstedt but only as ordinary 2-lane roads. They do not plan any motorway.

Germany has a lot of other priorities than building motorways without any traffic.
At the moment there ar only calls from the local economy for a motorway Esbjerg - Heide.
German Link
But when a motorway Esbjerg - Tonder will be build, the German side will most likely also start motorway-plans.

Edit: That's what's planned at the moment:
Link
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Old March 20th, 2010, 01:44 AM   #532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikolaj View Post
Yes I am pretty sure they plan a couple of by-passes around small towns like Bredstedt but only as ordinary 2-lane roads. They do not plan any motorway.

Germany has a lot of other priorities than building motorways without any traffic.
Okay, just thought I had seen it somewhere. Tried to search and you're absolutely right, nothing has been decided (or planned), not all the way to the border atleast.

Accoring to this Danish acticle, it does look like they they are planning a western passage over/under the Elb though. Does anybody know anything about that? Are they planning to connect that to A7 (E45) north of Hamburg, or haven't they gotten that far yet?

Last edited by mlm; March 20th, 2010 at 01:53 AM.
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Old March 20th, 2010, 02:40 AM   #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlm View Post
Accoring to this Danish acticle, it does look like they they are planning a western passage over/under the Elb though. Does anybody know anything about that? Are they planning to connect that to A7 (E45) north of Hamburg, or haven't they gotten that far yet?
Yes, that's the A20 extension from Lübeck via A21, A7, A23, A26(new), A27, A29 to A28. (Parts of it is still planned as A22, but that will be changed this year):
http://www.schleswig-holstein.de/MWV...cationFile.pdf
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Old March 21st, 2010, 02:17 PM   #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABRob View Post
At the moment there ar only calls from the local economy for a motorway Esbjerg - Heide.
German Link
But when a motorway Esbjerg - Tonder will be build, the German side will most likely also start motorway-plans.

Edit: That's what's planned at the moment:
Link
Tomorrow the Danish Minister for Transport Hans Chr. Schmidt, will go to Berlin to visit the German Minister Peter Ramsauer, to discuss especially the road and rail links over the Danish/German border, inclusive the westcoast connection you mention.

Link to info.:

http://www.dr.dk/Regioner/Syd/Nyhede.../21/072248.htm

Excerpt from the article.:

"Der står blandt andet motorvej langs den jyske vestkyst på programmet, når transportminister Hans Chr. Schmidt mandag mødes med sin tyske kollega i Berlin."

Translation.:

"On the program is among other a highway along the westcoast, when minister of transport Hans Chr. Schmidt is meeting his German colleague in Berlin."

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Last edited by Fender56; March 21st, 2010 at 02:38 PM.
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Old March 22nd, 2010, 11:48 AM   #535
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Originally Posted by mlm View Post
It's worth mentioning that Herning-Århus and Herning-Vejle will be all motorway in a few years. It's being build in stages, and all have either been build, are UC or have been decided. I've added them to the map, it's the two in different shades of orange:

I just don't see why the Herning-Vejle motorway ends north from Vejle - isn't it pretty obvious that that causes even more traffic on the bridge?
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Old March 22nd, 2010, 01:54 PM   #536
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Yes. They are already building though, so too late to do anything about it.

You can only wonder why they decided on this solution. Maybe it was to avoid crossing the "Vejle Ådal", something that might could have stalled the process a lot like it was seen with the part around/through Silkeborg.
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Old March 22nd, 2010, 06:07 PM   #537
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A combined 'løsning 2' and 'løsning 3' was much wiser instead of A18..

Not only traffical but also for the development of 'midtjylland'.

I bet it was cheaper to
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Old March 22nd, 2010, 07:03 PM   #538
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Why should it be cheaper? Along A18 there almost no "important" nature to care about, something you surely can't say about "hærvejen". It's a lot more expensive to build through nature like that than through a flat boring landscape like on most of A18.

It's a bit pointless though, since they started planning A18 many years ago.
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Old March 22nd, 2010, 11:50 PM   #539
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You are absolutly right!

Thought my said enough about my seriousness

The first bit.. from E45 til Viborg can follow directly '13'. After that nature comes.. I bet the new motorway avoids coming even close to Silkeborg
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Old March 23rd, 2010, 12:06 AM   #540
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Oh well....

If they go for something like "1" I think the plan is to cross "Herningmotorvejen" in the little village of Pårup between Silkeborg and Ikast, that's also where A13 cross it today. That's actually just a few hundred meters west of "Funder Ådal" where it gets really problematic.

Anyway, I hope they'll do their research well and not just hurry a solution through. Such a massive investment, which could have a big importance of the future development of central Jutland, shouln't be taken too lightly.
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