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Old March 24th, 2010, 12:30 AM   #541
kosimodo
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Other good news from Denmark. Work has started on the new motorway from E45 Kliplev towards Sønderborg. The 26 km shuould be finished in 2years

http://www.vejdirektoratet.dk/imageb...che/244278.pdf

And a link with the road..
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Old March 24th, 2010, 12:36 AM   #542
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Originally Posted by kosimodo View Post
Other good news from Denmark. Work has started on the new motorway from E45 Kliplev towards Sønderborg. The 26 km shuould be finished in 2years

http://www.vejdirektoratet.dk/imageb...che/244278.pdf

And a link with the road..
Good news?

I wouldn't define "spending billions of kroner on a new motorway in an area that is barely even populated" as good news.
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Old March 24th, 2010, 01:25 PM   #543
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The roads get some traffic though:
[IMG]http://i39.************/34zxfyh.png[/IMG]

A combined 20,000 AADT. But I guess the main problems are during the weekends, when driving in Denmark (outside København), I got the idea the weekends were busier than during the workdays.
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Old March 24th, 2010, 03:21 PM   #544
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The roads get some traffic though:
[IMG]http://i39.************/34zxfyh.png[/IMG]

A combined 20,000 AADT. But I guess the main problems are during the weekends, when driving in Denmark (outside København), I got the idea the weekends were busier than during the workdays.
Three of the main roads into Roskilde has a combined ADT of 55.000. I don't see why you would build an entire motorway to a part of Denmark that is basically a dead-end, when the three main roads combined only has an ADT of 20.000.
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Old March 24th, 2010, 04:29 PM   #545
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Three of the main roads into Roskilde has a combined ADT of 55.000. I don't see why you would build an entire motorway to a part of Denmark that is basically a dead-end, when the three main roads combined only has an ADT of 20.000.
Do You want a new motorway going into Roskilde, or what is Your point?

It seems like the never ending debate in Denmark whether it is okay to invest in infrastructure in the other part of the country than where You are living.

To your question as to why build to Sønderborg, the answer is the same as why you build a motorway to Frederikssund or other places, that it for technical and political reasons seems a good idea.
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Old March 24th, 2010, 04:42 PM   #546
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To your question as to why build to Sønderborg, the answer is the same as why you build a motorway to Frederikssund or other places, that it for technical and political reasons seems a good idea.
Have you seen the traffic on Ballerup Byvej and Frederikssundsvej? That's why...
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Old March 24th, 2010, 04:55 PM   #547
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Do You want a new motorway going into Roskilde, or what is Your point?
My point is: Why waste money building a motorway to a remote point in Denmark, that already has the infrastructure to handle all the traffic going there?

There are lots of places in Denmark that would make more sense to build a motorway, for instance Copenhagen Ring 5, Roskilde-Ringsted or motorways to help the traffic in Aalborg, Silkeborg and on Vejle Fjord. Heck, I would even build a motorway down the west coast of Jutland, before building a motorway to Sønderborg.
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Old March 24th, 2010, 05:18 PM   #548
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My point is: Why waste money building a motorway to a remote point in Denmark, that already has the infrastructure to handle all the traffic going there?

There are lots of places in Denmark that would make more sense to build a motorway, for instance Copenhagen Ring 5, Roskilde-Ringsted or motorways to help the traffic in Aalborg, Silkeborg and on Vejle Fjord. Heck, I would even build a motorway down the west coast of Jutland, before building a motorway to Sønderborg.
I am glad I don't live in such a remote point (remote from what ? Roskilde?)
Anyway I don't worry so much. We get 25 km of motorway for 1,2 bn. DKK to Sønderborg where as the 26 km to Frederikssund (not a remote point from Roskilde) will be 4,7 bn. DKK
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Old March 24th, 2010, 06:37 PM   #549
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Danfoss is f.e located in Nordborg.

With building a motorway in these remote locations you can keep the industry in that area. It is the life line for a lot of 'remote' areas.
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Old March 24th, 2010, 09:21 PM   #550
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Quote:
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Three of the main roads into Roskilde has a combined ADT of 55.000. I don't see why you would build an entire motorway to a part of Denmark that is basically a dead-end, when the three main roads combined only has an ADT of 20.000.
Sønderborg is no more "dead end" than Copenhagen.

To all those from Sjælland, who envy Jylland the infrastructure investments, please take in account that ALL the highways in Jylland did cost less than the planned railway in the Cph area, and please remember 52% of the Danish population, lives in Jylland.

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Old March 24th, 2010, 09:39 PM   #551
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Sønderborg is no more "dead end" than Copenhagen.

To all those from Sjælland, who envy Jylland the infrastructure investments, please take in account that ALL the highways in Jylland did cost less than the planned railway in the Cph area, and please remember 52% of the Danish population, lives in Jylland.

First off, "Jydske ø-gruppe" has a population 2.543.568, which is 45% of the total Danish population of 5.511.000 (Both numbers are from dst.dk).

The population density of the entire Sealand is 312 people per square kilometre.
The population density of the Capital Region is 649.
The population density of Copenhagen is 3705.

The population density of Jutland is 85.
The population density of Southern Jutland is 82.
(All these numbers are curtesy of statistikbanken.dk)


So yeah, you really need that motorway more than the people on Sealand does.
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Old March 24th, 2010, 10:09 PM   #552
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Please bring us the same percentages in infrastructure investments and compare them to the population, and you´ll be astounded.

Jylland gets way way fewer statevice investments per taxpayer than the same Sjællænder. And nobody prohibits the municipalities around and in Copenhagen to build their own roads, not all roads over there are state roads.

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Old March 24th, 2010, 10:20 PM   #553
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@ Spikespiegel: So because Jutland is more spread out there should be no motorways here?

You don't hear me complain when they spend many billions on for example the metro cityring, or when they extend the motorway to Holbæk (which doesn't have that much traffic either), that's fine. But for some reason many Sealanders need to express how stupid it is every single time there's discussion about something in Jutland...
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Old March 24th, 2010, 11:33 PM   #554
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@ Spikespiegel: So because Jutland is more spread out there should be no motorways here?

You don't hear me complain when they spend many billions on for example the metro cityring, or when they extend the motorway to Holbæk (which doesn't have that much traffic either), that's fine. But for some reason many Sealanders need to express how stupid it is every single time there's discussion about something in Jutland...
The reason I put up the numbers is to show why billions more is spent on infrastructure on Sealand than in Jutland. Jutland already has decent infrastructure. Because the population is less dense, you don't need as many motorways, as the normal roads can easily handle the load. Ofcourse, there are needs for some intercity infrastructure, but in this aspect, I think eastern Jutland already has what it needs (with the exceptions of below-mentioned expansions).

I'm not saying that there should be no motorways in Jutland. However, the Jutlandian politicians COULD think twice before making the investments. Building a motorway to Sønderborg, would be equivalent to us building a motorway to Faxe. There are motorways in Jutland that are in as dire need for upgrades, as the motorways in Copenhagen, here I am of course talking about Vejle Fjord and Aalborg.

We Sealanders doesn't mind Jutland getting some better infrastructure, as long as it's put where it is needed.

About the extension of Holbækmotorvejen. It's only the section around Roskilde that is getting expanded. The motorway is the only way for people in the Northwestern Sealand to get to Copenhagen, as Roskilde Fjord is a national heritage site, and thus you cannot build a bridge across the fjord to help traffic. At rush hour, I can walk faster than the traffic moves on the motorway, which is why it's getting upgraded.

About Frederikssundsmotorvejen that is being mentioned. I don't agree on this motorway either. Sure the traffic up to Frederikssund is pretty dense, but I had rather seen the money saved for either O5 around Copenhagen or an expansion of Vejle Fjord.

Last edited by Spikespiegel; March 24th, 2010 at 11:39 PM.
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Old March 24th, 2010, 11:44 PM   #555
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Had they saved the cash from Frederikssundsmotorvejen, they would already have most of the money needed to build O5 (8 billion DKK). The O5 would solve most of the traffic problems around Copenhagen, even the traffic up to Frederikssund.
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Old March 24th, 2010, 11:46 PM   #556
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What is this O5 plan exactly?
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Old March 24th, 2010, 11:49 PM   #557
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What is this O5 plan exactly?
http://byplanlab.dk/plan09/www.plan0...pportRing5.pdf

(That is not an official document, but it gives a pretty good idea of the project. It's also in Danish :P)

It's a new motorway around Copenhagen that is planned to go From Helsingør in the North to Roskilde/Taastrup in the west and all the way down to Køge in the South.
According to Børsen.dk, the motorway is projected to cost 8 Billion DKK, which is a large amount of money, but according to numbers from the Capital Region, the entire region is set to lose 11 billion DKK a year from 2015, is the motorway not built.

Børsen source: http://borsen.dk/politik/nyhed/162879/
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Old March 25th, 2010, 12:00 AM   #558
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Enough being said about Jutland, there is much I don't understand about politicians in Sealand either. A plan to build 2 railroad tracks from Copenhagen to Ringsted over Køge has been approved. The idea is that all the traffic to Jutland will go over Køge instead of Roskilde.

However, this new railroad does not offer any new significant stations, nor does it really improve the traffic from neither Ringsted nor Køge (as the travel time from Ringsted will be pretty much the same, and the new station will be placed many kilometres outside Køge, so the commuters will just use the S-train anyway).

At the same time, Roskilde, Denmarks biggest trainstation outside Copenhagen, will get much fewer trains to Copenhagen, and that is even though the trains currently are completely full between Copenhagen and Roskilde in rush hour.
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Old March 25th, 2010, 12:19 AM   #559
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Enough being said about Jutland, there is much I don't understand about politicians in Sealand either. A plan to build 2 railroad tracks from Copenhagen to Ringsted over Køge has been approved. The idea is that all the traffic to Jutland will go over Køge instead of Roskilde.

However, this new railroad does not offer any new significant stations, nor does it really improve the traffic from neither Ringsted nor Køge (as the travel time from Ringsted will be pretty much the same, and the new station will be placed many kilometres outside Køge, so the commuters will just use the S-train anyway).

At the same time, Roskilde, Denmarks biggest trainstation outside Copenhagen, will get much fewer trains to Copenhagen, and that is even though the trains currently are completely full between Copenhagen and Roskilde in rush hour.

And time for another classic Roskilde - this time the new line via Køge or widening the good old one via Roskilde. Roskilde will be far better of with the new line via Køge. It is not coorect when you say that Roskilde with new line. You will have just as mny as present. In addition you won't have all the goods train currently running through Roskilde making a hell of a lot of noice ans slowing passenger trains. So by all means the best solution for everybody, including Roskilde, will be the new line which finally has been approved. By the way it is not correct that there will be no important station on the new one. Køge will be a new and very important one. (a competitor to Roskilde??)
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Old March 25th, 2010, 12:25 AM   #560
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And time for another classic Roskilde - this time the new line via Køge or widening the good old one via Roskilde. Roskilde will be far better of with the new line via Køge. It is not coorect when you say that Roskilde with new line. You will have just as mny as present. In addition you won't have all the goods train currently running through Roskilde making a hell of a lot of noice ans slowing passenger trains. So by all means the best solution for everybody, including Roskilde, will be the new line which finally has been approved. By the way it is not correct that there will be no important station on the new one. Køge will be a new and very important one. (a competitor to Roskilde??)
The copenhagen goods terminal is located in Høje Taastrup, so the goods trains would have to move through Roskilde anyway. Besides, I live only some 50 meters from the main line in Roskilde, and I never notice when trains pass.
The station in Køge will be placed outside the city limits, and thus it will not really be an important station. Sure, it will make it easier for people living in Køge to get to Jutland, but you don't choose to live in Køge if you go to Jutland often. People commuting between Køge and Copenhagen will not use the new line, as they would have to take the Roskilde train northbound (only departs twice an hour), then they have to get on another train at Køge Nord.
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