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Old January 21st, 2011, 03:09 PM   #741
ChrisZwolle
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http://jp.dk/indland/indland_politik/article2313012.ece

Danish transport minister Schmidt is leaning towards a Fehmarnbelt Tunnel.

I think they will eventually regret this.
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Old January 21st, 2011, 03:14 PM   #742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
http://jp.dk/indland/indland_politik/article2313012.ece
I think they will eventually regret this.
I know very little of this and I'm interested. Can you elaborate?
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Old January 21st, 2011, 03:23 PM   #743
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I'm not in favor of a tunnel if a bridge is an equally good option, for three reasons;

1) tunnels are far more likely to suffer from severe cost escalation
2) renovation costs for tunnels are extremely high
3) traffic safety in tunnels is significantly lower, and HC* trucks are often restricted.

* HC = Hazardous Cargo
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Old January 21st, 2011, 03:53 PM   #744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I'm not in favor of a tunnel if a bridge is an equally good option, for three reasons;

1) tunnels are far more likely to suffer from severe cost escalation
2) renovation costs for tunnels are extremely high
3) traffic safety in tunnels is significantly lower, and HC* trucks are often restricted.

* HC = Hazardous Cargo
Fully agrees.

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Old February 1st, 2011, 09:58 PM   #745
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Some other photos of the future Fehmarn tunnel: http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fo...cke-64164.html

Article in German: http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soz...742887,00.html
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Old February 1st, 2011, 10:24 PM   #746
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Yep, it s going to be a tunnel...



In danish: http://politiken.dk/politik/ECE11833...-til-tyskland/
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Old February 1st, 2011, 10:29 PM   #747
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So it will be a 2x2 tunnel for road traffic?
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Old February 1st, 2011, 10:35 PM   #748
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Two tubes with two lanes and a shoulder each, two tubes with one track each.

It will be an immersed tunnel, just like the ones in the Netherlands, but on a much bigger scale (18 km versus no more than 2).

I wonder if a mixed solution bridge-tunnel-bridge like for the Oresund would have been possible, or better.
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Old February 1st, 2011, 10:40 PM   #749
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The upside of an immersed tunnel is that the segments and the entrances can be build at the same time. Just ship the segments and sink them. I'm thinking technically 3 - 4 years of construction should be possible.

I doubt if there is an immersed tunnel in the Netherlands which exceed 1 km in length. All immersed tunnels in the Netherlands are under rivers or canals, which are evidently never wider than 1 km in NL. The total length may be over 1 km, but the immersed section isn't.
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Old February 1st, 2011, 10:59 PM   #750
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I don´t know yet. Somehow I ´m not so happy for this solution, I would rather see a bridge solution.
Than again, you never know! We may all be happy for this tunnel....
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Old February 1st, 2011, 10:59 PM   #751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The total length may be over 1 km, but the immersed section isn't.
The immersed part of the Piet Hein tunnel is around 1.3 km long, but that is not a big difference.
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Old February 1st, 2011, 11:19 PM   #752
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The new Fehmarnbelt Tunnel will beat the Zhongnanshan Tunnel for being the longest twin-tube road tunnel by the way (18 vs 19 km).
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Old February 2nd, 2011, 11:15 AM   #753
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a 17,6 km tunnel

Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
http://www.railwaygazette.com/nc/new...preferred.html


01 January 2011

EUROPE: Femern A/S is recommending an immersed tunnel rather than a cable-stayed bridge as its preferred option for the Fehmarn Belt fixed link to replace the train ferry between Germany and Denmark, the Danish project promoter announced on November 30.

A 17·6 km tunnel up to 40 m deep would present fewer construction risks as it would not be pushing the limits of the technology to the same extent as a cable-stayed bridge, which would need free spans of 724 m, the largest ever built for combined road and rail use.

Financially, there is little difference. A bridge design by Cowi/Obermeyer is costed at €5·2bn, and Rambøll/Arup/TEC’s tunnel plan at €5·5bn, with the tunnel having slightly higher operating costs and taking around six months longer to build, at 6½ years.

The studies were commissioned to update 1999 reports which had backed a bridge. The final decision will be taken by the Danish government in early 2011, with contracts to be awarded in 2014 for opening in 2020.
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Old February 2nd, 2011, 11:25 AM   #754
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I'm surpised that this isn't joint Danish-German project.
Anyway - go, tunnel! Copenhagen and Sweden is getting closer to us
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Old February 2nd, 2011, 12:31 PM   #755
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Quote:
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a 17,6 km tunnel
Weird, since the minimum distance between Puttgarden and Rødby is at least 18.9 kilometers. I guess they will build the entrances into sea.
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Old February 2nd, 2011, 01:48 PM   #756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy Llama View Post
I'm surpised that this isn't joint Danish-German project. Anyway - go, tunnel! Copenhagen and Sweden is getting closer to us
Why suprised? There is no money for this in Germany.. Yhey are still strugling with lack of infrastructure in the eastern part.. The deal is Danmark pays the tunnel and Germany only takes care of the infrastructure on their side. Not that suprising, even parts of the A31 in Germany were paid by the Netherlands..

And where 20% of the trade Denmark makes goes to Germany.. It is only 1,5% the way round.
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Old February 2nd, 2011, 07:26 PM   #757
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Comparing this picture and an aerial view, it seems that the coast will be extended.

The infrastructures upgrades in Germany will be limited. I'm sure that the single track railway will not be doubled (only electrified), and I suppose the road will remain 1x2.
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Old February 2nd, 2011, 07:33 PM   #758
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As far as I know the entire B207 will be widened to 2x2 lanes except for the Fehmarnsund Bridge between the continent and Fehmarn Island.
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Old February 3rd, 2011, 01:00 PM   #759
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Quote:
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As far as I know the entire B207 will be widened to 2x2 lanes except for the Fehmarnsund Bridge between the continent and Fehmarn Island.
Yep that is specifically stipulated in treat between the two governments, which has been ratified by as weel the Bundestag and the Danish Folketing. The B207 road will 2x2 by opening of the fixed link, except the Fehmarnsund Bridge and the railway will electrified by the same time and double tracked by 2025 (again except the Fehmarnsund Bridge)
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Old February 3rd, 2011, 02:51 PM   #760
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Just 2x2, or autobahn standard?
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