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Old February 1st, 2013, 07:42 PM   #1141
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Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
The only conclusion to be done based that chart is that most of the freight flow from and to Sweden, Norway and Finland bypasses Denmark.
As for the Öresund bridge I don't think that the Fehmarn bridge will result in an substantial increase of road traffic to Germany compared to the ferries, because the toll will be about as expensive as the ferries.

The big difference will be in increased rail traffic where the price of crossing the bridge is small and of less importance.

Instead of 5 hours, Copenhagen-Hamburg is likely going to take 3 hours.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 07:50 PM   #1142
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Hmm. The fees for a loaded truck at the Rødbyhavn - Puttgarden ferry is € 230. By comparison, the toll for a full-size truck at the Øresund Bridge is € 126.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 08:50 PM   #1143
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Hmm. The fees for a loaded truck at the Rødbyhavn - Puttgarden ferry is € 230. By comparison, the toll for a full-size truck at the Øresund Bridge is € 126.
The future Fehmarn tunnel Cost of construction 6,1 billion €
The Öresund bridge Cost of construction 2,32 billion €


I think they will charge the Fehmarn motorists at least the double charge compared to the Öresund bridge, makes it as expensive as the ferry.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 09:26 PM   #1144
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Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
As for the Öresund bridge I don't think that the Fehmarn bridge will result in an substantial increase of road traffic to Germany compared to the ferries, because the toll will be about as expensive as the ferries.
The question was about transport corridors. I am rather sure that even after the completion the Fehmarn bridge, most of the freight will still be carried by cargo ships. The Port of Gothenburg only handled 42 million tons of cargo in 2012. That is more than triple the sum of the volumes across Öresund in the material linked.

Time is money for the road transport. The ferries must be as least 20% cheaper than the fixed link to be competitive in terms of flexibility.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 09:32 PM   #1145
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The Port of Gothenburg only handled 42 million tons of cargo in 2012. That is more than triple the sum of the volumes across Öresund in the material linked.
I doubt if you can make a realistic comparison with those numbers. Not all cargo handled in Göteborg has an alternative in trucking, especially if that cargo comes from other continents. For instance I don't think Volvos exported to East Asia or the Americas would have otherwise been trucked or railroaded to its destination.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 11:00 PM   #1146
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The landborder between Denmark/Jutland and Germany/Schleswig-Holstein is by far the largest transport corridor for goods transport between Scandinavia and The Continent

P. 10 in
http://detgodeliv.regionsyddanmark.d...%20feb2012.pdf (for those who understand German)

http://www.stringcorridor.org/media/..._structure.pdf

Four times as much is transported across the landborder Jutland/Schleswig-Holstein than across the Baltic (Rødby-Puttgarten + Gedser-Rostock), and two times as much goods are transported across the landborder than across Øresund (Øresends bridge + Helsingborg-Helsingør). Total goods transport directly from Sweden/Scania (by ferry) is on slightly larger than the one across Øresund.
Denmark is not geographically part of Scandinavia so this doesn't really answer the original question....
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 12:15 AM   #1147
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It isn't?

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...61/Scandinavia
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 12:51 AM   #1148
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Many people use the word Scandinavia as synonymous to "Scandinavian peninsula".

About the languages: written language is also easier to understand than spoken language. Having studied Swedish for 10 years I understand written Danish very well; but still have serious problems with spoken Danish.
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 12:27 PM   #1149
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Many people use the word Scandinavia as synonymous to "Scandinavian peninsula".

About the languages: written language is also easier to understand than spoken language. Having studied Swedish for 10 years I understand written Danish very well; but still have serious problems with spoken Danish.
There are at least three definitions of Scandinavia: geographical (Sweden, Norway), cultural (Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland) and linguistic (Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Iceland).
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 06:09 PM   #1150
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There's only one definition of Scandinavia, and that's Sweden, Norway and Denmark. Any other is simply either wrong, or not a definition of Scandinavia. The Scandinavian peninsula is a different thing. In the same way that Great Britain and the United Kingdom is two different things.
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 06:15 PM   #1151
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Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Many people use the word Scandinavia as synonymous to "Scandinavian peninsula".

About the languages: written language is also easier to understand than spoken language. Having studied Swedish for 10 years I understand written Danish very well; but still have serious problems with spoken Danish.
I think most English-speaking people understand "Scandinavia" as including Denmark. The best one can say about the "Denmark isn't Scandinavia" statement is that it's debatable.

But I wasn't trying to start something. :-)

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Old February 2nd, 2013, 06:26 PM   #1152
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I was thought that Scandinavia is just Sweden and Norway.

Sure, culturally Denmark belongs as well, but the question raised here was how goods cross the sea - over bridges or with ferries. Denmark has a land border with Germany and therefore is not relevant on this aspect.
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 06:29 PM   #1153
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Sure. But how much traffic between the eastern part of Denmark - notably including Copenhagen - and Germany (and points south) goes by sea? Or is my geography out of date?
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 11:36 PM   #1154
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Sure. But how much traffic between the eastern part of Denmark - notably including Copenhagen - and Germany (and points south) goes by sea? Or is my geography out of date?
I travel to Scandinavian countries pretty much every year, and the ferrys between Germany and Denmark handle a lot of lorries. Some of the biggest ferries sail on the Baltic sea, because it's rather calm and there are no tides. And I think trade will increase, especially between the Scandinavian peninsula and Poland and the Baltic countries.

PS: Denmark is part of Scandivia, obviously
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 11:09 AM   #1155
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Which are the main arteries for the commercial traffic between Scandinavia and the rest of Europe? Judging by ultra low numbers of trucks obviously not this bridge.
Note that a lot of freight trains still use the Trelleborg-Sassnitz train ferry instead of the Oresund and Great Belt bridge-tunnels, also because the railway line to Germany is still single track (though it's in part being doubled).
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Old February 4th, 2013, 02:06 PM   #1156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
The only conclusion to be done based that chart is that most of the freight flow from and to Sweden, Norway and Finland bypasses Denmark.
No wrong conclusion. Unless - offcourse - if Denmark is not a part of Scandinavia, which is quite new to me.

The largest corridor goods corridor between Scandinavia and the Continent is the land border between Denmark/Jutland and Germany/Schleswig-Holstein.

As noted in the report (see the link above) approx. 29 mio. tonnes is transported across the land border. Trelleborg is the main port in Southern Sweden for goods transport between Sweden/Norway and the Continent, but according to this report http://www.balticportlist.com/datafi...PortList06.pdf
The Port of Trelleborg only handles around 11 mio. tonnes of cargo a year (in and out). Gothenburg primary handles overseas transport and not transport to the continent.

On the truck/trailers side Trelleborg handled 566.000 trucks and trailers a year (in and out) according to the Baltic Port List Report. The two other main ports in Soutern Swedenfor tansport to the continent (Malmö and Ystad) had a total of 430.000 trucks and trailers a year. The E45 motorway across the Danish/German border alone carries more than 2,8 mio. trucks a year (in and out).

On the rail side The Port of Trellenborg carried 78.000 and Ystad another 20.000 wagons a year (in and out) according to the Baltic Port List Report. With an average of 10 tonnes of cargo per wagon (which according to a google search is the average net load) that means around 1.000.000 tonnes in and out of Sweden on board rail. However according to Statistics Denmark around 2.361.000 tonnes of goods are transported on rail in and out of Denmark across the Danish/German border (both figures from 2006).

So again the conclusion is that no matter we talk about total amount of goods, number of trucks and trailers or rail transport, the corridor across the Danish/German is the main corridor between Scandinavia and the continent (with a margen)
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Old February 4th, 2013, 02:55 PM   #1157
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There's only one definition of Scandinavia, and that's Sweden, Norway and Denmark. Any other is simply either wrong, or not a definition of Scandinavia. The Scandinavian peninsula is a different thing. In the same way that Great Britain and the United Kingdom is two different things.
No, no, no.

I do not believe there is any authority in the World to carve this definition or any other competing definition in stone. As the term is interpreted differently in various contexts, the safest approach is to treat it ambiguous and subject to clarification case by case.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 12:04 PM   #1158
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THIS IS SCANDINAVIA!!!!!
(the red ones)



That is how they told us in school, here in Sweden.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 12:16 PM   #1159
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That's right Orionol!
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Old February 5th, 2013, 12:21 PM   #1160
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Yes you are right, Orionol ...Denmark, Norway Sweden!
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