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Old June 30th, 2013, 06:45 PM   #1241
ChrisZwolle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
How are the traffic volumes on the Primærrute 11 (Tønder bypass)?!
There are 5.600 vehicles at the German border, then increasing to 8.800 vehicles at Tønder, then 5.000 - 6.000 to Ribe, 11.000 - 13.000 around Ribe and 10.000 - 12.000 vehicles to the PR-24 split near Esbjerg.
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Old July 1st, 2013, 07:36 PM   #1242
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There are 5.600 vehicles at the German border, then increasing to 8.800 vehicles at Tønder, then 5.000 - 6.000 to Ribe, 11.000 - 13.000 around Ribe and 10.000 - 12.000 vehicles to the PR-24 split near Esbjerg.
Chris, did you ever hear about trafficjumps? Much of the traffic today, crossing the border at E45, actually comes from the westcoast area around Esbjerg/Varde. And much of this traffic today goes the E20/E45 detour around Kolding, due to traffic jams and to many roundabouts all along the present A11.

If only 5.000 cars a day moves to a new 2+2 A11, then this German/Danish border crossing, will have more traffic than many other highways in this country. So don´t look yourself blind on the present traffic, but think in the long term!

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Old July 1st, 2013, 11:10 PM   #1243
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If only 5.000 cars a day moves to a new 2+2 A11, then this German/Danish border crossing, will have more traffic than many other highways in this country. So don´t look yourself blind on the present traffic, but think in the long term!
Yes and no. If there would be a motorway, the traffic would also be splitted into two groups. The transit and the regional traffic would use the motorway, but the local traffic would use the current road anymore! Typically about 50% belong to the first group.

Don't get me wrong, I would be glad if a motorway would be built, but I think there is higher demand on other routes!
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 03:08 PM   #1244
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Chris, did you ever hear about trafficjumps? Much of the traffic today, crossing the border at E45, actually comes from the westcoast area around Esbjerg/Varde. And much of this traffic today goes the E20/E45 detour around Kolding, due to traffic jams and to many roundabouts all along the present A11.

If only 5.000 cars a day moves to a new 2+2 A11, then this German/Danish border crossing, will have more traffic than many other highways in this country. So don´t look yourself blind on the present traffic, but think in the long term!

Depending on what you mean by "much of traffic", that is not correct.

According to traffic modelling on Vejdirektoratets Jylland-Fyn Traffic model (http://vejlebib.dk/ting/object/763000%3A29332231 - unfortunately not available online) only around 1550 cars (and 270 trucks and busses) a day on E45 between Christiansfeld and Haderslev (south of Kolding) has its destination or origin on E20 west of Holsted, and not all of them go as far (or has there origin) as the border, and only a fraction go as far (or originates) as far as Hamburg. Based on these numbers it is safe to assume that less than 500 cars a day, currently using E45 via Kolding on there way from Esbjerg/Varde to Hamburg or further could potentially use a Route 11 motorway.

There is general tendency to overestimate the number of cars travelling very far distances. From the same publication it can be seen that 60- 75 % of all car trips are local trips (not beyond the municipal borders, approx 0-15 km), and another 20 % are regional traffic (15-60 km) An example is the Vejle Fjord bridge (E45) which is crossed by 66000 cars a day. Of those 66000 cars only 10500 cars (and 2200 trucks, buses etc) has driven a distance of more than 60 km. (northern origin/destination north of Hedensted and southern origin/destination south of Christiansfeld). So transit traffic (+60 km) actually only accounts for around 15 %.

No matter how it is calculated there is no traffical basis for a Route 11 motorway. I agree with Chris that it would be beautiful with such a thing, but there is many other places where public investments in road infrastructure could be used so much better.
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Old August 9th, 2013, 08:21 PM   #1245
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Pia Olsen Dyhr became minister of transportation today. She's from the more leftist and green socialist people's party (the former minister was from the social-democrats). What does this mean for mobility policy?
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Old August 10th, 2013, 03:25 PM   #1246
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Pia Olsen Dyhr became minister of transportation today. She's from the more leftist and green socialist people's party (the former minister was from the social-democrats). What does this mean for mobility policy?
Is she one of those politicians who hates automobiles?
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Old August 12th, 2013, 10:34 AM   #1247
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Pia Olsen Dyhr became minister of transportation today. She's from the more leftist and green socialist people's party (the former minister was from the social-democrats). What does this mean for mobility policy?
It probably means more public transport initiatives and less new road initiatives. However in the Danish system much of the transport policy is based on very broad agreements between the government and the opposition, and a new minister will thus not mean a radical change in the short og medium term.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 04:43 PM   #1248
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Denmark of course doesn't have many bottlenecks and is relatively congestion-free, and some issues are currently addressed, so I don't expect a large motorway construction boom even with a pro-road minister of transportation.

I do hope they construct Motorring 5 plus a new tunnel at Helsingør, which is also interesting for rail advocates.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 06:00 PM   #1249
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What about the widening of the E45 south of Kolding? What is the current status on this matter?
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Old August 12th, 2013, 06:16 PM   #1250
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It probably means more public transport initiatives and less new road initiatives. However in the Danish system much of the transport policy is based on very broad agreements between the government and the opposition, and a new minister will thus not mean a radical change in the short og medium term.
Any suggestions of city entrance toll fees in Odense or Copenhagen ?
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Old August 12th, 2013, 06:25 PM   #1251
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What about the widening of the E45 south of Kolding? What is the current status on this matter?
We discussed this a month ago

Right now there isn't even a pre-study (forundersøgelse).
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Old August 12th, 2013, 07:22 PM   #1252
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We discussed this a month ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Right now there isn't even a pre-study (forundersøgelse).
Thought I had read about it last year or so.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 07:42 PM   #1253
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The new transportation minister says congestion is a more important theme than lower public transport fares.

http://jyllands-posten.dk/politik/EC...-billetpriser/

An election promise of 40% lower fares on public transport in greater Copenhagen could not be realized. She doesn't go all anti-roads in that article of JP, just the usual green talk than transport should be more environmentally friendly.

Still, I have the feeling that congestion is exaggerated in Denmark. I've driven all Danish motorways without ever getting into a traffic jam. Of course those were one-time experiences, but TomTom hardly ever shows congestion on Danish motorways other than caused by accidents. Greater Copenhagen is not entirely congestion free, but it's certainly not very bad compared to other major European cities.

Recent widening projects such as Motorring 3, Køge Bugt Motorvejen and Holbækmotorvejen solved pretty much all congestion there. Other slowdown spots are also being addressed, such as the E47 north of Copenhagen and shoulder running on the Hillerødmotorvej.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 10:03 PM   #1254
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Still, I have the feeling that congestion is exaggerated in Denmark. I've driven all Danish motorways without ever getting into a traffic jam. Of course those were one-time experiences, but TomTom hardly ever shows congestion on Danish motorways other than caused by accidents. Greater Copenhagen is not entirely congestion free, but it's certainly not very bad compared to other major European cities.
Having been in Amsterdam once during rush hours (45 minutes for 500 meters onthe city ring), I'd say Denmark is paradise.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 12:44 PM   #1255
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Any suggestions of city entrance toll fees in Odense or Copenhagen ?
Specific congestions charges in cities(or toll ring as it was called in Denmark) is completely dead in Danish cities, including Copenhagen and Aarhus (never heard about it in Odense). When the current government came into office two years ago, a congestion charge/toll ring in Copenhagen was part of their ticket, but this issue went absolutely mad, as they were attacked from every side when the specific plan was presented. They were attacked from mayors from suburban councils/municipalities of Copenhagen and from businesses, and the result was that the government had to make a rather painfull retreat. The result is that anyone mentioning the word congestion charge/toll ring is dead as a politician.

A general road road pricing (kilometer charge) replacing current vehicle taxes is still the official policy of the government in a distant future, but a kilometer charge for heavy goods vehicles, that was supposed to be launched in 2014, was skipped this spring all together and as the general road pricing(kilometer charge) officially has been linked to a successfull implementation of such a system in the Netherlands, it is not likely that we will see anything of that soon.
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Old August 15th, 2013, 04:56 PM   #1256
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Denmark of course doesn't have many bottlenecks and is relatively congestion-free, and some issues are currently addressed, so I don't expect a large motorway construction boom even with a pro-road minister of transportation.

I do hope they construct Motorring 5 plus a new tunnel at Helsingør, which is also interesting for rail advocates.
Congestion in 2011 and estimated level 2025 (Source: Vejdirektoratet)

http://vejdirektoratet.dk/DA/viden_o...20i%202011.pdf

http://vejdirektoratet.dk/DA/viden_o...20i%202025.pdf
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Old August 15th, 2013, 05:16 PM   #1257
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Interesting, thanks. I do have some doubts about prolonged traffic growth though. Traffic growth has been levelling off after 2000, and most traffic growth is a result from population growth, and less of actual growth in usage per capita. Of course changing spatial developments may change traffic patterns.

By the way I found out that the Great Belt Bridge came 2 months short in being the longest suspension bridge in the world. Had it opened in early 1998, it would've been the longest in the world until the Akashi Kaikyō Bridge in Kobe, Japan opened on 5 April 1998. The Great Belt Bridge opened 14 June 1998 and remained the #2 suspension span until 2009 (when the Xihoumen Bridge in China opened).
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Old August 15th, 2013, 09:14 PM   #1258
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WHY MUST YOU BRING UP THIS NATIONAL SHAME!!?

The issue of the narrow opportunity and then loss of the title of 'Worlds longest suspension bridge' was certainly talked of here.
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Old August 16th, 2013, 11:52 AM   #1259
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Interesting, thanks. I do have some doubts about prolonged traffic growth though. Traffic growth has been levelling off after 2000, and most traffic growth is a result from population growth, and less of actual growth in usage per capita. Of course changing spatial developments may change traffic patterns.

By the way I found out that the Great Belt Bridge came 2 months short in being the longest suspension bridge in the world. Had it opened in early 1998, it would've been the longest in the world until the Akashi Kaikyō Bridge in Kobe, Japan opened on 5 April 1998. The Great Belt Bridge opened 14 June 1998 and remained the #2 suspension span until 2009 (when the Xihoumen Bridge in China opened).
I tend to think that the estimate is relatively conservative.
It is generally believed that there is a general back-log of traffic growth in Denmark, primarily because car ownership is still well below the European average. However car ownership is currently growing at a relatively high rate, and is expected to do so over the next couple of decades. This will assure a continued traffic growth over the next 10-20 years.
Secondly the estimate is based on a long term traffic growth of 1,5 % p.a. This is well below the growth on the motorway network experienced on the Danish motorway over the past 10-20 år (generally 3-4,5 % p.a.).
Even during the recession 2008 and onwards, where the overall amount of traffic was reduced by a total of 2,8 % from the peak in 2008 to the bottom in 2010
http://www.vejdirektoratet.dk/DA/vid..._1984_2012.xls (since that it have been picking up sligthly) the traffic on the motorway network has been stable or even continued to increase.

An example is 2012, where overall traffic only increased by 0,1 %, but traffic on the motorway network increased by 1,9 %. Traffic is reduced on local roads and to a lesser extent on other non- motorway main roads.
http://www.vejdirektoratet.dk/DA/vid...04_kv_2012.pdf

The development in traffic on various section from 1988-2011 can be seen on the following link.
http://www.vejdirektoratet.dk/DA/vid...ger%202011.xls
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Old August 16th, 2013, 04:46 PM   #1260
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A similar pattern was observed in the Netherlands, where motorway traffic is growing at a higher rate than regular roads in the periphery (some are declining). Also, caution should be used with percentages. A 1% growth of a 50 000 AADT motorway is much more in real terms than 1% growth on a main road with 4 000 AADT.
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