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Old August 27th, 2013, 09:41 PM   #1281
ChrisZwolle
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I think the construction of the Femernbelt Tunnel will make a stronger point for Motorring 5 and the HH-connection, especially if this project is without delays and cost overruns.
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Old August 27th, 2013, 11:05 PM   #1282
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The Swedish city of Landskrona has proposed to build a tunnel under the Øresund to Copenhagen.
There was a regular ferry route Landskrona-Copenhagen (Tuborg harbour) but it closed as the Öresund bridge opened.

But now it seems like the ferry route opened again during the summer.

It takes 1 hour. I think this could be a better choice than the train for those who live in Landskrona.
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Old August 28th, 2013, 11:30 AM   #1283
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I think the construction of the Femernbelt Tunnel will make a stronger point for Motorring 5 and the HH-connection, especially if this project is without delays and cost overruns.
In Denmark the HH connection (and to some extent) is more or less only sponsored by the town of Helisingør (Elsinore). It is primarily a Swedish driven project. There is no real interest in the project from the Danish government, and it will be a nightmare (NIMBY's) to have a corridor through Northern Zealand, with the well-off suburbs where all the politicians and top civil servants are living.

If and when extra capacity (primarily rail capacity) is needed across Øresund the preferred Danish solution is extra capacity in some way or the other between Copenhagen and Malmö. There is absolutely no wish to have more goods transport (rail or trucks) through Northern Zealand.
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Old August 28th, 2013, 12:33 PM   #1284
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In Denmark the HH connection (and to some extent) is more or less only sponsored by the town of Helisingør (Elsinore). It is primarily a Swedish driven project. There is no real interest in the project from the Danish government,
The germans aren't to keen about the Fehmarn project, because it is not as important for them as it is for the danish to get a fixed link to continental Europe from Själland. Similar thing about connections between S-DK.

But the HH-connection must be a very local idea in Helsingborg because I have never heard of it.

I must add though that when I drove from Roskilde to Helsingör I noticed that although Helsingör is a quite small city, through traffic was very dense, especially the road to the harbour. During July I can imagine that some congestions could occur, while many swedes pass through Helsingör when going to Europe. It's the best route for most motorists living north of the southernmost part of Sweden. Next time I'll drive to Germany I will not drive through DK though, I will choose the Trelleborg-Sassnitz ferry which is cheaper than the HH & Rödby-Puttgarden ferries.
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Old August 28th, 2013, 02:11 PM   #1285
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Why is Motorring 5 even discussed? Wouldn't widening Helsingørmotorvejen and motorring 3 suffice?
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Old August 28th, 2013, 08:35 PM   #1286
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Motorring 3 was recently widened to 2x3 lanes. A further widening would be quite expensive. Motorring 5 would serve chiefly regional traffic, international traffic would be relatively small. The idea is to combine it with a commuter / freight railway that bypasses Copenhagen. The HH proposal even goes for 5 tunnels (2 tubes for motorway, 2 tubes for passenger railway and 1 tube for freight railway).
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Old August 29th, 2013, 02:06 PM   #1287
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Motorring 3 was recently widened to 2x3 lanes. A further widening would be quite expensive. Motorring 5 would serve chiefly regional traffic, international traffic would be relatively small. The idea is to combine it with a commuter / freight railway that bypasses Copenhagen. The HH proposal even goes for 5 tunnels (2 tubes for motorway, 2 tubes for passenger railway and 1 tube for freight railway).
But again in official Danish planning, only a Motorring 5 motorway is considered at a preliminary level - no railconnection. And the same with the HH fixed link - is not considered at the official national level. It is entirely a local proposal.
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Old September 4th, 2013, 05:32 PM   #1288
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new road openings

The new motorway Riis - Ølholm - Vejle (E45) will open to traffic on 30 September 2013.

Additionally, the western bypass of Slagelse (Primærrute 22) will open to traffic on 28 September 2013.

Also, construction of the bypass of Næstved (Primærrute 54) will begin on 27 September 2013. This will open in 2016.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 12:09 AM   #1289
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But again in official Danish planning, only a Motorring 5 motorway is considered at a preliminary level - no railconnection. And the same with the HH fixed link - is not considered at the official national level. It is entirely a local proposal.
That is not correct, the ring 5 corridor is projected with both a motorway and a railway and a huge area is already reserved for this purpose and has been in many years.
Maybe not a with a railroad in mind when it was made in the 60'ies but I think that the general consensus is that it will get build with a railroad because Ring 5 will only get build if the H-H tunnel is build.

There will be stations at Helsingør, north of Allerød, A relocated Kildedal station and at Køge Nord.
The line will also branch of towards Roskilde.

The Rambøl study shows that this project without the H-H tunnel will costs around 19 billion DKK.

I have linked to the Rambøl report here on SSC before and I will find it again if you are interested.

Last edited by bongo-anders; September 5th, 2013 at 12:20 AM.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 01:55 PM   #1290
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That is not correct, the ring 5 corridor is projected with both a motorway and a railway and a huge area is already reserved for this purpose and has been in many years.
Maybe not a with a railroad in mind when it was made in the 60'ies but I think that the general consensus is that it will get build with a railroad because Ring 5 will only get build if the H-H tunnel is build.

There will be stations at Helsingør, north of Allerød, A relocated Kildedal station and at Køge Nord.
The line will also branch of towards Roskilde.

The Rambøl study shows that this project without the H-H tunnel will costs around 19 billion DKK.

I have linked to the Rambøl report here on SSC before and I will find it again if you are interested.
H+H and a railway in the Ring 5 corridor are locally sponsored project (helsingør primarily),and the Rambøll study is locally sponsored study aiming at convincing the national authority to go into the project.

From the official national authorities only a motorway is considered, and only at a very preliminary stage
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Old September 5th, 2013, 09:06 PM   #1291
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Baggrund
I efteråret 2008 igangsattes projektet Infrastruktur og Byudvikling i Øresundsregionen (IBU) med
midler fra Interreg IV-programmet. Projektet koordineres af Region Skåne, Region Hovedstaden
og Region Sjælland samt involverer 30 partnere i form af kommuner, samarbejdsfora og institutioner i hhv. Danmark og Sverige.

Well I see more than just Helsingør here.


http://www.regionh.dk/NR/rdonlyres/E...nekorridor.pdf


That is correct that Trafikministeriet is only looking at a motorway but a railway tunnel will be useless if there is no connection to the mainline that bypass Copenhagen.
And forget about freight trains running through Kystbanen and the central station


Here is the link for the tunnel study.

http://www.regionh.dk/NR/rdonlyres/2...e_analyser.pdf
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Old September 5th, 2013, 09:33 PM   #1292
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Vejdirektoratet has taken these areals that the user Silkebaronen reposted in the danish section.






























More aerials here:
http://www.vejdirektoratet.dk/DA/vej...ALLE_rev01.pdf

3D renderings here:
http://www.vejdirektoratet.dk/DA/vej...eborg_ALLE.pdf

Source:
http://www.vejdirektoratet.dk/DA/vej.../default.aspx#
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Old September 5th, 2013, 09:46 PM   #1293
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Primærrute 15 around Silkeborg, right?
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Old September 5th, 2013, 10:09 PM   #1294
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Oh sorry I forgot to add that info, but off course it is.
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Old September 6th, 2013, 02:02 PM   #1295
Nikolaj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo-anders View Post
Baggrund
I efteråret 2008 igangsattes projektet Infrastruktur og Byudvikling i Øresundsregionen (IBU) med
midler fra Interreg IV-programmet. Projektet koordineres af Region Skåne, Region Hovedstaden
og Region Sjælland samt involverer 30 partnere i form af kommuner, samarbejdsfora og institutioner i hhv. Danmark og Sverige.

Well I see more than just Helsingør here.


http://www.regionh.dk/NR/rdonlyres/E...nekorridor.pdf


That is correct that Trafikministeriet is only looking at a motorway but a railway tunnel will be useless if there is no connection to the mainline that bypass Copenhagen.
And forget about freight trains running through Kystbanen and the central station


Here is the link for the tunnel study.

http://www.regionh.dk/NR/rdonlyres/2...e_analyser.pdf
Correct but the point is that the Ministry of Transport is not looking into an H+H link at all. The H+H link is entirely a Swedish and locally (in Helsingør) sponsored project. To the extent that Ministry of Transport and its agencies are looking into added capacity across Øresund (rail capacity) it is added capacity between Copenhagen and Malmö that has the focus.
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Old September 6th, 2013, 02:49 PM   #1296
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Correct but the point is that the Ministry of Transport is not looking into an H+H link at all. The H+H link is entirely a Swedish and locally (in Helsingør) sponsored project. To the extent that Ministry of Transport and its agencies are looking into added capacity across Øresund (rail capacity) it is added capacity between Copenhagen and Malmö that has the focus.
Not very surprising. Germany is not very interested in paying the access from Denmark to Germany. Denmark is not very interested in paying the access from Sweden to Denmark. Sweden is not very interested in paying the access from Finland to Sweden. Logical, isn't it.
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Old September 6th, 2013, 02:54 PM   #1297
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IMHO, the EU should fund such major projects with a larger share than they do today. Construction of motorways with EU-funding in Poland and Romania is good and necessary, but let's not forget the infrastructure in the older EU countries.
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Old September 6th, 2013, 03:17 PM   #1298
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
IMHO, the EU should fund such major projects with a larger share than they do today. Construction of motorways with EU-funding in Poland and Romania is good and necessary, but let's not forget the infrastructure in the older EU countries.
We have the same problem in Germany. After 1990, a lot of infrastructure funds went into the Eastern states, which was right because there was a lot to do. But the consequence today is, that there has been done too little in the Western states.

But in my opinion and seen from the distance, the HH link does not look like a "must have", but rather a "nice to have".
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Old September 6th, 2013, 11:04 PM   #1299
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Quote:
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IMHO, the EU should fund such major projects with a larger share than they do today. Construction of motorways with EU-funding in Poland and Romania is good and necessary, but let's not forget the infrastructure in the older EU countries.
Well, I don't know. Anything the EU touches turns bloody expensive because of massive bureaucracy. Secondly, most of the EU money is collected from the older EU countries. I cannot see much benefits from routing the money to Brussels and back.
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Old September 6th, 2013, 11:15 PM   #1300
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The car traffic over Øresund is not the problem, its the rail traffic that is pushing on to the limits.

The problem is a high density of passenger trains mixed up with alot of freight trains, the trains are packed in the rush hour and for the moment there is very little spare capacity.

But the point is that in order to build the tunnel they also need to build a tunnel for cars in order to make it financial viable.

But the motorway along the ring 5 corridor will also move cars away from motorring 3, 4 and also to some extend ring 2 and 3, relieving congestion on these ring roads.

A study showed that even the roads around the lakes in central Copenhagen would have a small decrease in traffic if the Ring 5 corridor was build.
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