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Old May 3rd, 2014, 07:54 PM   #1401
ChrisZwolle
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Keep in mind that Danish salaries are much higher than in most other European countries, and that there are discount programmes for frequent users. For example daily users of the Øresund Bridge do not pay € 46 each way, but € 5 (between 17 and 50 single trips per month). Basically only tourists pay the full price, in fact one return trip per year with BroPass is already cheaper than two single trip tolls.
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Old May 3rd, 2014, 08:06 PM   #1402
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The point is: before there was a bridge, there used to be ferries.
People had to pay anyway, so today, they pay for the bridge what they used to pay for the ferryboat. Perhaps some more.

For me, being German, the bridges are expensive too, and even for Danes, and Swedes, who are countries with some of the highest salaries in Europe, it is not cheap. Still, there is a lot of traffic on those bridges.

There are ways to get discount. If you are a commuter - yes, there are people who cross the bridge twice a day - you can save a lot of money using a "BroBizz", an electronic toll system that gives a high rebate.

I crossed the Great Belt Bridge last weekend, and paid like 235 DKK (€ 31,50), and when I returned, it was only 140 DKK (€ 18,80). I got the weekend return discount, using the same credit card is enough to recognize that. Quite smart solution.

(On the other hand, I remember crossing the Vasco da Gama bridge in Lisboa, Portugal which is the same length - 17 km - and paid like € 2,50)
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Old May 3rd, 2014, 08:46 PM   #1403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heico-M View Post

I crossed the Great Belt Bridge last weekend, and paid like 235 DKK
I drove across this bridge last year. When driving eastbound from Nyborg you pay first when you arrive in Korsör. Why ? It would be more appropriate to pay before entering the bridge. If someone cross the bridge and realizes he has no money when he arrives, what happends ? can he pass through and receive a bill that he pays later ?
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Old May 3rd, 2014, 11:16 PM   #1404
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I drove across this bridge last year. When driving eastbound from Nyborg you pay first when you arrive in Korsör. Why ? It would be more appropriate to pay before entering the bridge. If someone cross the bridge and realizes he has no money when he arrives, what happends ? can he pass through and receive a bill that he pays later ?
Possibly. Never tried it though.
But there are really big sings that you are entering a toll road and you have the chance to exit before you enter the bridge. So you don't take the road just accidentally.
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Old May 4th, 2014, 12:17 AM   #1405
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The high toll on the bridge is more or less what's keeping "Öresund" from being a reality, yeah you can take the train but what shopper is A buying only in the town center and B can carry all the sh*t all day. And it's so convenient to travel with your kids on a crowded commuter train right? Older ppl love the endless walking the train ride is sure to guarantee.

Nah the dream is dead, the bridge is all about a few commuters and a lot of long haul traffic today, most ppl don't go often at all even as DK territory begin only 4km away from our 3rd largest city.

If they lowered the price a lot, say first weekend of the month, then if only for this one weekend the vision "Öresund" would be real. New costumers, new friends = Öresund!

Obviously the 2 regions would gain a lot from increased business(+ taxes) with lower tolls , hell they might even make more in tolls from larger volume..but no, it wont happen.
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Old May 4th, 2014, 07:11 PM   #1406
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Primærrute 18 - Midtjyske Motorvej

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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Brande bypass is currently being widened to a motorway. The project is due for completion in October 2014. Then there will be a continuous motorway from E45 at Vejle to Herning.
Sorry, I haven't noticed that info .

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PR-18: Brande By-pass
Length: 7 km
Construction period: 2012-June 2014
Addding one carriageway, and reconstruction of old carrigeway to motorway standard (adding width and hard shoulders)]

Map: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=55...83712&z=13&m=o

Project: http://www.vejdirektoratet.dk/da/vej...x#.Uu9V1vl5Ph4
When will the 2nd carriageway of the Brande bypass be opened, June or October 2014?
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Old May 4th, 2014, 07:14 PM   #1407
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My quote was from over a year ago, but Vejdirektoratet still lists October 2014.
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Old May 4th, 2014, 11:11 PM   #1408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
I drove across this bridge last year. When driving eastbound from Nyborg you pay first when you arrive in Korsör. Why ? It would be more appropriate to pay before entering the bridge. If someone cross the bridge and realizes he has no money when he arrives, what happends ? can he pass through and receive a bill that he pays later ?
It is cheaper to build one two-way toll plaza rather than two one-way ones. I addition, it is more efficient in terms of resourcing: The toll booth agents can change the side easily if the distribution of traffic volumes changes by time.

These benefits are widely recognized, and a similar setup can be seen at many toll bridges and tunnels.
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Old May 4th, 2014, 11:49 PM   #1409
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All right, I'm from Basque Country, and I don't know if this is expensive or not... For salaries in very corrupt Spain (I'm basque, nor spanish) these tolls are very expensive. Well, I live in spanish Basque Country, not in french Basque Country, when life is good and salaries are like Netherlands.

My question is: Is there many traffic in those bridges? Is not very expensive?
You can't really compare these bridges to tolled motorways in Spain or France since these are the only options there are for these routes; drivers cannot save money by choosing a local road and not the motorway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
I drove across this bridge last year. When driving eastbound from Nyborg you pay first when you arrive in Korsör. Why ? It would be more appropriate to pay before entering the bridge. If someone cross the bridge and realizes he has no money when he arrives, what happends ? can he pass through and receive a bill that he pays later ?
What does it matter to the driver where the toll plaza is anyway? After you pass the last interchange before the bridge to either direction, you are obliged to pay - was it 0,5 km or 20 km after that interchange doesn't matter.

What matters is that you are forewarned about not only the toll road, but also about the amount of the toll itself, like this.

https://maps.google.fi/?ll=55.305603...143.13,,0,7.97

Then again, if you see the sign above and you are on your way to Zealand, there isn't really much you can do if you don't have money. You can exit the motorway, sure, but as said above, there isn't really any cheaper way to get yourself and your car from that sign to Zealand.

As an answer to your question: what happens might be the same as on petrol stations, when you refill your tank and cannot pay. If you are cooperative, you might find a way to settle the issue later and police might not be needed, but however I strongly recommend against trying.
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Old May 5th, 2014, 12:15 AM   #1410
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Remove your license plate, then ram it
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Old May 5th, 2014, 12:29 AM   #1411
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Swimming the strait is for free, I think all other modes of transport will cost something.
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Old May 5th, 2014, 01:53 AM   #1412
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I guess you will get a bill in the mail if you just drive through without paying. Also, my guess is, "soon" there will be a europe-wide single system for tolled roads, AutoPass, BroBizz and so on. Less administration, easier for travelers and no ridiculous toll booths where you have to stop and pay on a road designated for 110 km/h+ speed. ANPR will take care of those who don't have any tags in their cars.
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Old May 5th, 2014, 08:02 AM   #1413
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Quote:
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Remove your license plate, then ram it
... and replace your windshield after hitting the barrier
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Old May 5th, 2014, 11:15 AM   #1414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
My quote was from over a year ago, but Vejdirektoratet still lists October 2014.
The signs along the road still says October, but I think I have seen a Vejdirektoratet spokesperson being quoted for June as the opening month.

I drove on the road this weekend, and the widening looks literally only few weeks from completion. Final layer of asphalt, including road marking, has been applied, crash barriers allmost complete and road signage are being erected. Best guess is completion before the holiday season.
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Old May 5th, 2014, 11:39 AM   #1415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javimix19 View Post
Well, I have one question about danish motorways:

- In Denmark all motorways are toll free, I know. But there are two bridges with tolls: Great Belt Fixed Link and Oresund Bridge.

- My question is about tolls in these two bridges: As 2014 Great Fixed Link by standard car costs 33 euros. Oresund Bridge costs 46 euros.

All right, I'm from Basque Country, and I don't know if this is expensive or not... For salaries in very corrupt Spain (I'm basque, nor spanish) these tolls are very expensive. Well, I live in spanish Basque Country, not in french Basque Country, when life is good and salaries are like Netherlands.

My question is: Is there many traffic in those bridges? Is not very expensive?
For the users the prise for using the fixed links has more or less been accepted (you allways hear someone complaining). The reason for this is basically that (as least for the Great Belt/Storebælt link) prices are cheaper than before - with the ferries - plus you save 1 hour each way and the hazzle of having to speed to reach the ferry you had booked. For frequent users and for users with a Brobizz tag you don't pay the full price. But the main reason for the prize is that the construction cost (4-5 bn Euros - as far as I remember) has to be recovered. The Fixed Links are constructed without government subsidy, and the construction cost has to be recovered through bridge tolls. The toll has been set to recover (pay back the loans) in the shortest possible period/maximising income. Right now it is expected that the construction cost of the Great Belt Fixed Link will be recovered in about 30 years (around 2030). Studies have been made on the price elasticity for users of the bridge, and the conclusion is that if prices were reduced the number of users will not increase enough to achieve the same income for the Bridge company, and thus there ability to recover the construction cost.
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Old May 5th, 2014, 01:39 PM   #1416
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Right now it is expected that the construction cost of the Great Belt Fixed Link will be recovered in about 30 years (around 2030).
I wonder what the maintennance costs are on those bridges. I have read that there is constant service and repairs going on all the time due to corrosion and cracks in the concrete slab. How many maintennanceworkers are employed on the Öresund/Store Bält bridge just to keep it in order or do they only use contractors occasionally ?

The Store Bält bridge is making more profit than the Öresund bridge because it connects two separate parts of one country. Although connecting two major scandinavian cities, lack of integration means the Öresund bridge will never be as profitable as the Store Bält bridge. Same thing about the future Fehmarn-bridge.
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Old May 5th, 2014, 02:06 PM   #1417
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I took a look at the Annual Report 2013 from A/S Storebæltsforbindelsen http://www.e-pages.dk/sundblt/142/ and from Sund & Bælt A/S (the holding company owning A/S Storebælt as well as A/S Øresund) http://www.e-pages.dk/sundblt/137/

Main figures:

AADT 2013: 29817 (+ 0,2% from 2012)
Outstanding debt: DKK 24.3 bn (approx. Eur 3,3 bn)
Debt expexted to be downpayed: 2029
Profit after tax: Eur 300 mio. (for dividend to owner and downpayment of debt)
Maintenance and operation cost: Eur 55 mio.
Operation and Maintenance is outsourced, but the annual report states that approx. 200 people are employed with operation and maintenance.
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Old May 6th, 2014, 10:54 PM   #1418
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E45 Limfjord Tunnel

The Limfjord Tunnel turns 45 years today. It opened 6/5/1969. It was the first large road tunnel in Denmark and the first immersed tunnel.


Limfjordstunnellen opføres by Aalborg Stadsarkiv, on Flickr



Limfjordstunnellen opføres by Aalborg Stadsarkiv, on Flickr


Limfjordstunnellen opføres by Aalborg Stadsarkiv, on Flickr
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Old May 8th, 2014, 05:32 PM   #1419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
When will the 2nd carriageway of the Brande bypass be opened, June or October 2014?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
My quote was from over a year ago, but Vejdirektoratet still lists October 2014.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikolaj View Post
The signs along the road still says October, but I think I have seen a Vejdirektoratet spokesperson being quoted for June as the opening month.
Well, it's even better, the new carriageway and upgrade to motorway will open on 27 May!

http://vejdirektoratet.dk/DA/om-os/n...fartsvej-.aspx
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Old May 8th, 2014, 06:31 PM   #1420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikolaj View Post
The toll has been set to recover (pay back the loans) in the shortest possible period/maximising income. Right now it is expected that the construction cost of the Great Belt Fixed Link will be recovered in about 30 years (around 2030).
What will happen when the construction costs are paid off? Will the tolls be reduced to just cover ongoing operating and maintenance costs and company profits? I assume the company will not be allowed to keep the same toll rates and vastly increase their profits. This is a big advantage of having a well-regulated private company owning the bridge instead of the government. The temptation is too great to keep the tolls in place (which the public is already used to paying) after construction costs are paid off, and divert the funds to other purposes. I believe this is typical with US toll facilities, although I do recall hearing of cases where tolls have been removed. (Probably some of the Midwest and Northeast folks here know more about this than I do, since they live where most of the toll facilities are.)
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