daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old June 19th, 2014, 11:56 PM   #1481
NordikNerd
Rail & Road traveller
 
NordikNerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Linköping
Posts: 2,748
Likes (Received): 1408

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikolaj View Post

The traffic across the Oresund is characterized by many commuters and few occcasional users - .
I have driven to Denmark/Germany about 10 times and I have never crossed the Öresund bridge by car only with the train.

For me the bridge is further away than the HH-ferries, the ferries depart every 20 minutes so there is hardly no waiting in the harbour.

The location of the bridge means a detour for all swedish motorists except for the ones living in the very south of Skåne (Scania)/Blekinge.

I think the best option through Denmark is the ferry Varberg-Grenå. It takes 4 hours and then you'll have 240km to the german border. Eventhough it takes longer time than the ferries Helsingborg-Helsingör/Rödby-Puttgarden it is cheaper and easier as you border one ferry instead of two. You have enough time to have dinner, do shopping and relax. On the other two ferries you have 20 & 45 minutes which is a lot more stressfull, especially if you are a family with children.
NordikNerd no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old June 20th, 2014, 12:03 AM   #1482
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19411

The Helsingør - Helsingborg ferry internet price during the summer is 350 DKK. That's almost the same as the Øresund Bridge full price. The Øresund Bridge adds 38 kilometers to the route compared to H-H ferry. That's 20 minutes of driving, exactly the same time as the ferry takes to cross the strait.

Which means the H-H ferry offers no time advantage and no meaningful cost saving either, compared to Øresund Bridge. It then boils down to a matter of personal preference.
__________________

my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

devo liked this post
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2014, 11:12 AM   #1483
NordikNerd
Rail & Road traveller
 
NordikNerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Linköping
Posts: 2,748
Likes (Received): 1408

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post

Which means the H-H ferry offers no time advantage and no meaningful cost saving either, compared to Øresund Bridge. It then boils down to a matter of personal preference.
From my city Linköping to Copenhagen.

Öresund Bridge: 461 km 4 h 11 min Price: 415SEK/343DKK/46EUR

HH Ferries 416 km 4h 40 min Price: 405SEK/334DKK/45EUR

Difference in distance : 45km

Dont follow the E4 ferry signs in to Helsingborg, take the northern motorway joint instead. You save 5 km.

Petrol cost (14SEK/L)

Linköping-Helsingborg, Helsingör-Copenhagen (405+50) 455SEK.

Linköping-Öresund Bridge-Copenhagen 515SEK


Difference in price for petrol and toll/ferry: 70SEK/7,80EUR


Conclusion: Timewise the bridge is better. Especially in the summertime eventhough the ferries depart every 15 min, it can be quite messy and crowded in the harbours. Especially the road to the harbour of Helsingör is narrow and traffic is slow.

So if I was a courier carrying an urgent parcel to Copenhagen I would defiantely choose the bridge.

Dont forget that few drivers put up with 460km of constant driving (not even couriers) Most long distance drivers want to stop for a break. One driver
takes his break on the ferry. The other one who chose the bridge may have to waste those 20 minutes at a rest area instead. Unless he's not eating and drinking behind the wheel and brings a peebottle

As vacationer with family (which I am) I prefer the ferry.


What is the purpose of a roadtrip ? Getting there as fast as possible eventhough it means a longer distance to drive ? Or drive the shortest distance, meaning cheaper ? When I drove a taxi some years ago, this was a perpetual dilemma.
NordikNerd no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2014, 11:30 AM   #1484
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19411

Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
Dont forget that few drivers put up with 460km of constant driving (not even couriers) Most long distance drivers want to stop for a break. One driver
takes his break on the ferry. The other one who chose the bridge may have to waste those 20 minutes at a rest area instead.
That argument isn't very strong, because not everybody conveniently arrives at the ferry after 4 hours of driving, so a stop to rest may or may not be required yet. But a ferry dictates a stop, where fixed link makes you able to choose where and when to stop.

The bridge is more flexible. You can arrive at any minute of the day (or night), and there are basically never waiting times.

It would be interesting to know the traffic figures of the ferry. The bridge carries 20,000 vehicles per day. To compare, the busiest ferry in Norway handles 5,000 vehicles per day. I suppose the H-H ferry carries more than that, due to the high frequency of the ferry.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2014, 11:38 AM   #1485
Nikolaj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 288
Likes (Received): 77

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The Øresund Bridge adds 38 kilometers to the route compared to H-H ferry. That's 20 minutes of driving, exactly the same time as the ferry takes to cross the strait.

Which means the H-H ferry offers no time advantage and no meaningful cost saving either, compared to Øresund Bridge. It then boils down to a matter of personal preference.
Correct for the long distance traveller, and that is why the Øresund Bridge is primarily used local travellers/commuters between Malmø and Copenhagen, and to a minor extent for travellers to/from the Danish island Bornholm. The main ferry connection with fast ferries goes from Ystad to Bornholm, and to reach Ystad the Øresund Bridge is the shortest distance.

On the other hand - the few times I have travelled longer distance from Denmark towards Sweden/Norway (and back), I have every time chosen the bridge, and that for very simple reasons. Although it is a longer distance and may be a little more expensive, it is so much more convenient to take the bridge. I don't have to look at any ferry schedule and plan for it, I don't have to go on the internet and calculate which ferry departure is the cheapest. I don't risk missing the booked ferry and wait for whatever time and I don't have to go off the motorway. With the Brobizz transponder from Storebælt, I know that I get a little discount, and that is just easy and convenient.
Nikolaj no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2014, 11:39 AM   #1486
OulaL
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Jämsä
Posts: 644
Likes (Received): 121

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The Helsingør - Helsingborg ferry internet price during the summer is 350 DKK. That's almost the same as the Øresund Bridge full price. The Øresund Bridge adds 38 kilometers to the route compared to H-H ferry. That's 20 minutes of driving, exactly the same time as the ferry takes to cross the strait.
It's sometimes a question on where to take a break. If you need to take a break anyway, it can as well be combined with the ferry trip.

I wonder if there could be electronic boards on the E4/E6/E20 giving the next few ferry departures, as well as the estimated waiting time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
Dont follow the E4 ferry signs in to Helsingborg, take the northern motorway joint instead. You save 5 km.
There is a reason for the traffic being signposted through the southern motorway approach: that is to relieve the congestion in the centre of Helsingborg (which is, on a Swedish scale, a moderately sized city in itself).
__________________
Countries visited, driven in, (not independent), former:
A B CH CZ D DK E EST F FIN GB (+GBZ) GR H I L LT LV MAL MC N NL PL RUS S SGP SK SLO T TR YU
OulaL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2014, 01:08 PM   #1487
NordikNerd
Rail & Road traveller
 
NordikNerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Linköping
Posts: 2,748
Likes (Received): 1408

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post

It would be interesting to know the traffic figures of the ferry. The bridge carries 20,000 vehicles per day. To compare, the busiest ferry in Norway handles 5,000 vehicles per day. I suppose the H-H ferry carries more than that, due to the high frequency of the ferry.
The HH ferries carries about 6000 vehicles a day. 50% of all trucks choose the ferries prior to the bridge. Maybe the truckers need a rest ?
NordikNerd no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2014, 01:25 PM   #1488
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19411

Truckers need a 45 minute mandatory rest between two periods of 4.5 hours of driving, however, it may be split up into 15 and 30 minutes, which makes the ferry an interesting alternative to take at least the 15 minute break.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2014, 11:16 AM   #1489
NordikNerd
Rail & Road traveller
 
NordikNerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Linköping
Posts: 2,748
Likes (Received): 1408

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
But a ferry dictates a stop, where fixed link makes you able to choose where and when to stop.
I drove to Denmark in april last year. I arrived in Helsingborg harbour, at the check-in I bought the ticket and drove directly on to the ferry and it departed after about 5 minutes after I had parked my car. The ferry arrived in Helsingör 20 minutes later and I continued my journey.

My point is that in this case my vehicle was constantly in motion (even on the ferry, allthough at slow speed) there was practically no more stopping than on a toll bridge. Add to that the 20 minutes of rest needed for coffee-break, stretching and toileting.

When the Rödby-Puttgarden bridge opens we can expect to see a higher number of unrefreshed drivers on the roads.
NordikNerd no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2014, 11:22 AM   #1490
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,416
Likes (Received): 2082

Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
When the Rödby-Puttgarden bridge opens
A bridge will never be opened there .
MichiH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2014, 11:22 AM   #1491
Mirror's Edge
Free the Nordic people!
 
Mirror's Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: South Coast Scania
Posts: 565
Likes (Received): 2645

In summer you're lucky if you get the first ferry, it's not unusual to miss two ferry's before it's your turn.
Mirror's Edge no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2014, 12:27 PM   #1492
NordikNerd
Rail & Road traveller
 
NordikNerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Linköping
Posts: 2,748
Likes (Received): 1408

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
A bridge will never be opened there .
Sorry. The tunnel I meant. I wonder who will be the first one to youtube this new connection.
NordikNerd no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2014, 01:52 PM   #1493
MichiH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lower Franconia
Posts: 4,416
Likes (Received): 2082

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0OS4UI20140611

Quote:
European Union regulators are examining a complaint by ferry group Scandlines accusing Danish authorities of giving billions of euros in illegal state subsidies to state-owned builder Femern A/S to build a tunnel between Denmark and Germany.

[...]

Danish Transport Minister Magnus Heunicke rejected Scandlines' charge: 'If our financial model for the connection over the Fehmarn Belt to Germany is illegal, then the finished connections over the Great Belt and over Oresund to Sweden are also illegal as the financial model for all three projects are exactly the same'
MichiH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2014, 09:35 PM   #1494
Rebasepoiss
Registered User
 
Rebasepoiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 5,819
Likes (Received): 1822

Why is the H-H ferry so expensive? It's only 5km... In comparison, prices for a Tallinn-Helsinki ferry (car+driver) start from €38 and that's around 80km.
Rebasepoiss no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2014, 01:50 PM   #1495
bongo-anders
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Køge
Posts: 5,184
Likes (Received): 3604

New aerials of Silkeborgmotorvejen taken May 20 posted by Silkebaronen in the danish forum.

















more images here:
http://www.vejdirektoratet.dk/DA/vej...x#.U6PXxvl_uao
__________________

ChrisZwolle, snowdog liked this post
bongo-anders no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2014, 09:33 PM   #1496
OulaL
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Jämsä
Posts: 644
Likes (Received): 121

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
Why is the H-H ferry so expensive? It's only 5km... In comparison, prices for a Tallinn-Helsinki ferry (car+driver) start from €38 and that's around 80km.
It must be expensive to justify the somewhat equal bridge toll
__________________
Countries visited, driven in, (not independent), former:
A B CH CZ D DK E EST F FIN GB (+GBZ) GR H I L LT LV MAL MC N NL PL RUS S SGP SK SLO T TR YU
OulaL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2014, 09:38 PM   #1497
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,615
Likes (Received): 19411

I reckon a substantial part of the operating cost is the vessel itself. That costs a lot of money, whether it's a short or long trip. Plus labor cost, which isn't exactly cheap in either Denmark or Sweden.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2014, 09:57 PM   #1498
milipumba
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Køge
Posts: 655
Likes (Received): 467

This week 800 meters of new motorway opened, on route 21, just west of Copenhagen.
But it's gone again next year when BaneDanmark has finished building a new tunnel, for a High speed railroad, under the existing motorway.

http://www.bane.dk/visModulnyhed.asp?artikelID=20535



milipumba no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2014, 10:37 PM   #1499
MattiG
Registered User
 
MattiG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Espoo FI
Posts: 1,805
Likes (Received): 618

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
Why is the H-H ferry so expensive? It's only 5km... In comparison, prices for a Tallinn-Helsinki ferry (car+driver) start from €38 and that's around 80km.

There is a lot of competition on the Helsinki-Tallinn route.
MattiG no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2014, 10:38 PM   #1500
milipumba
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Køge
Posts: 655
Likes (Received): 467

Here are the latest pictures from the extension of the Køge bugt motorway, between exit 29 and 31, from 2x3 to 2x4 lanes.
This part is stage 2 of 3, where stage 1 was the part between the Ishøj intersection and exit 29. Stage 3 will be the part between exit 31 and the Køge west intersection.

The construction of the high speed railroad between Copenhagen and Ringsted, is visible in some of the pictures.




















The last picture shows exit 31, and the whole section northward.

__________________

ChrisZwolle, bongo-anders, devo liked this post
milipumba no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
legoland

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium