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Old May 31st, 2016, 08:14 PM   #1861
MattiG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post

Rödby-Puttgarden: 3.72 EUR/KM
Göteborg-Fredrikshavn: 0.77 EUR/KM
Trelleborg-Sassnitz: 0.46 EUR/KM
Ystad-Swinoujscie: 0.38 EUR/KM
That sort of a comparison seldom is meaningful. The ferry crossings are not priced per the crossing length but by value. Usually, the shorter the better. (Note: Norway excluded from this logic.)

Because Sweden is an island within the context of western Europe, there is always some cost implied from traveling to the central Europe, including Denmark. The Helsingborg-Helsingör ferry is slightly more expensive than the bridge Malmö-Copenhagen. Many people find the ferry delivering more value, because it saves 70 kilometers of driving on the congested E6/E20 in the southern Sweden.

The Trelleborg-Sassnitz route will bring value in the future, too. It saves about 300 km of driving on the Malmö-Berlin route compared to the Fehmarn tunnel.

I believe that the Scandline's route Gedser-Rostock will survive, too. It saves up to 180 kilometers.
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Last edited by MattiG; May 31st, 2016 at 08:14 PM. Reason: Grammar
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Old May 31st, 2016, 08:16 PM   #1862
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There will be a new exit to Puttgarden, where the tunnel joines the existing B207. So it's less than a 2 kilometer return drive to Bordershop from the tunnel.

I've never been inside Bordershop, but isn't it a giant booze shop?
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Old May 31st, 2016, 08:37 PM   #1863
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Scandlines stated they want to engage in a price war against the tunnel, but it remains to be seen how realistic this is after they lose a lot of business. A KPMG report indicated that Scandlines will operate at a loss once the tunnel opens, but it wasn't clear to me if they meant the entire company, or just this particular ferry route. Of course half of Scandlines revenue is from Bordershop.
I do not believe Scandlines to continue its R-P operations after the tunnel gets completed. The only value it can deliver is to sell cheap R-P plus H-H combo tickets for those people driving from or to Sweden. This most probably is not enough to keep the business case alive.

Instead, Scandlines is investing in the G-R route. Recently, a new battery-hybrid ferry was put into operation, and a second one will follow.
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Old May 31st, 2016, 08:50 PM   #1864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
There will be a new exit to Puttgarden, where the tunnel joines the existing B207. So it's less than a 2 kilometer return drive to Bordershop from the tunnel.

I've never been inside Bordershop, but isn't it a giant booze shop?
The booze is the main article, but other goods like candy are available, too. And everything because of the high taxes in Scandinavia: Norwegians travel to Finland because of low prices. Finns travel to Sweden because of low prices. Swedes travel to Denmark because of low prices. And Danes travel to Germany because of low prices.

The investment cost of such a hall is not very high. I am rather sure there will be something similar in the immediate proximity of the first exit in Germany.
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Old May 31st, 2016, 08:55 PM   #1865
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The night departures on the Trelleborg-Sassnitz route take slightly shorter time than the day ones. They might be less popular, as it is inconvenient for most travelers to arrive in Trelleborg at 03:15 in the morning.

The popular truckers' route is Trelleborg-Travemünde. On this route, the trucks move 300 kilometers in 8 hours, while the drivers are enjoying their mandatory rest.
Lol, cool to be lectured on a topic when I can see the ferry's right outside my workplace.
I never go to Germany, even if a ticket is as low as 35kr at times, then again I don't drink.
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Old May 31st, 2016, 09:02 PM   #1866
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Quote:
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That sort of a comparison seldom is meaningful. The ferry crossings are not priced per the crossing length but by value. Usually, the shorter the better. (Note: Norway excluded from this logic.)
As I see it: The boarding process in the harbours is the biggest expense for the ferry companies, while the crossing out at sea does not make so much difference in cost of staff whether the ferry takes 45 minutes or 4 hours. Also the short ferry-routes cant make as much revenue in sales aboard.

So that's why a short ferry ride costs almost as much as a long one.
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Old May 31st, 2016, 10:27 PM   #1867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
The Helsingborg-Helsingör ferry is slightly more expensive than the bridge Malmö-Copenhagen. Many people find the ferry delivering more value, because it saves 70 kilometers of driving on the congested E6/E20 in the southern Sweden.
Yes, but why is this happening? I assume Scandlines doesn't have a monopoly to run ferries in HH - there should be several companies competing with price+service. For example there is a ferry route Strömstad - Sandefjord but two different companies that does a 2,5hour crossing in 1/5 of the cost.
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Old May 31st, 2016, 11:20 PM   #1868
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Yes, but why is this happening? I assume Scandlines doesn't have a monopoly to run ferries in HH - there should be several companies competing with price+service. For example there is a ferry route Strömstad - Sandefjord but two different companies that does a 2,5hour crossing in 1/5 of the cost.
The history of the H-H route is full of mergers, competition, non-competition and company transactions. Currently, the operator HH-Line is owned by a British company, after Stena and Scandlines sold the line last year. Still, it runs under a marketing joint venture with Scandlines. The turbulence gives a hint that the line is not the goose that lays the golden eggs.

In order to be successful, the potential competitor would need to deliver a similar value proposition, and set it up rather quickly: all-day intensive traffic. The current operator has a fleet of five ferries optimized to short trips and the turnaround time of 10 minutes. Perhaps there is not such a fleet easily available.

It is much easier to enter a route like Strömstad-Sandefjord, because proper second-hand (or fifth-hand) car ferries are rather easily available with a reasonable cost. The business case of the S-S route is rather different: Much bigger fraction of the revenue comes from the tax free and restaurant sales, I believe. On the H-H route, most of the income is based on tickets.

(The low prices may be an illusion only. If I take a 2-night cruise to Stockholm with my wife, the credit card bill might show a total of 500 euro under the line, even if the ticket price were 20 euro.)

Last edited by MattiG; June 1st, 2016 at 11:04 AM.
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Old May 31st, 2016, 11:40 PM   #1869
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I visited the new Ølsemagle bridge in Køge Nord this evening, the bridge opened today and it spans 2 S-train tracks, the 8 lane Køge Bugt Motorvejen (E20, E47 and E55) and 4 tracks on the new Copenhagen-Ringsted high speed line.




















































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Old June 5th, 2016, 12:39 PM   #1870
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How much of the E20/47/55 widening between Køge and Copenhagen has been completed now? I may drive through this area next week and I want to film some of the completed segments, but roadworks are not so interesting to me. Is it completed north/east of Route 6? (That's Solrød-Syd I think?)
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Old June 5th, 2016, 12:59 PM   #1871
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Those very high prices for ferries/roads in Scandinavia still surprise me... What is the cheapest way to get from Southern Sweden to Copenhagen? Probably a bus or maybe a local train from Malmo?
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Old June 5th, 2016, 01:22 PM   #1872
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Those very high prices for ferries/roads in Scandinavia still surprise me... What is the cheapest way to get from Southern Sweden to Copenhagen? Probably a bus or maybe a local train from Malmo?
6 Euro with bus or 11 Euro with train, there is plenty of discounts for students or commuters etc.
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Old June 5th, 2016, 10:10 PM   #1873
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How much of the E20/47/55 widening between Køge and Copenhagen has been completed now? I may drive through this area next week and I want to film some of the completed segments, but roadworks are not so interesting to me. Is it completed north/east of Route 6? (That's Solrød-Syd I think?)
Its finished from Solrød S (Exit 31A) and northwards.


Its a cluster**** all the way from Motorvejskryds Køge Vest to Solrød S.

2 places where the lanes are moved to the other side of the motorway because they are building 2 tunnels under the motorway and 2 big bridge constructions (exit 31A and 32).

And generally they work in the median and on the emergency lanes with sound barriers etc etc etc.

Last edited by bongo-anders; June 13th, 2016 at 12:11 AM.
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Old June 6th, 2016, 07:29 PM   #1874
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Many people find the ferry delivering more value, because it saves 70 kilometers of driving on the congested E6/E20 in the southern Sweden.
Another reason is that you can have a break, by having a meal or drinking and toilet visit. Otherwise you need to make a stop on the motorway. It saves also time in that way.
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Old June 7th, 2016, 04:21 PM   #1875
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Another reason is that you can have a break, by having a meal or drinking and toilet visit. Otherwise you need to make a stop on the motorway. It saves also time in that way.
Sure. However, the crossing time is too short to have a meal. Some snacks, or a quick sandwich would go.

At least in the summertime, the feeling aboard is rather busy, and people are rushing around the ferry. I try to find a place to relax somewhere else.
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Old June 7th, 2016, 06:45 PM   #1876
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I drove through Denmark today. Once again I spotted a lot of broken down cars on the shoulder. I don't see that often in The Netherlands, I didn't see one in Germany, but over 10 in Denmark... I noticed this on previous trips as well. Don't people maintain their cars?
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Old June 7th, 2016, 07:30 PM   #1877
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De er ligeglad, at least in Själland there is a bit of a mañana-mañana culture in and around CPH.
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Old June 7th, 2016, 10:37 PM   #1878
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I drove through Denmark today. Once again I spotted a lot of broken down cars on the shoulder. I don't see that often in The Netherlands, I didn't see one in Germany, but over 10 in Denmark... I noticed this on previous trips as well. Don't people maintain their cars?
Were they really broken down or do people just park on the shoulders? One of the reasons why I'm not totally against the modern narrow swedish motorways (more like expressways) is because drivers can't just stop on the shoulder to answer a phone call, pee or for any other retarded reason.
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Old June 8th, 2016, 12:02 PM   #1879
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The second stage of Næstved Bypass opens in October 30, 2016

The second stage of Næstved Bypass (Ring Nord) between Ringstedgade and Slagelsevej/Vestre Ringvej opens in October 30, 2016.

http://www.vejdirektoratet.dk/DA/om-...C3%A6ngde.aspx
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Old June 9th, 2016, 11:34 AM   #1880
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Were they really broken down or do people just park on the shoulders? One of the reasons why I'm not totally against the modern narrow swedish motorways (more like expressways) is because drivers can't just stop on the shoulder to answer a phone call, pee or for any other retarded reason.
Denmark has such an extensive network of motorway rest areas, that stopping on the shoulder in case other than emergency is a real no-no. I have no idea how that is enforced, though.

I have driven through Denmark a couple of times and haven't noticed this. My best guess is just a statistical oddity on Chris' trip.
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