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Old October 19th, 2014, 11:29 AM   #2161
suburbicide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shifty2k5 View Post
PROS:
More forgiving against car collisions.
Reduces the harmful effects of snow drift and snow plowing.
Cheaper.

CONS:
Not as effective against larger and heavier vehicles.
Less durable - have to be replaced more often.
I'd ad another con: they're uglier than other guard rails.
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Old October 19th, 2014, 09:18 PM   #2162
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The UK briefly used wire restraint systems in the late 1990s and early 2000s, but stopped using it due to the threat posed to motorcyclists. The current preference is for a concrete barrier. It seems funny to see wire restraint systems in use in a country that supposedly prides itself on road safety. I guess it is better than no barrier, but that is all I can say.
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Old October 19th, 2014, 09:22 PM   #2163
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It seems funny to see wire restraint systems in use in a country that supposedly prides itself on road safety. I guess it is better than no barrier, but that is all I can say.
Well, the numbers support that Sweden is consistently in the top 3 safest countries in the world. With large-scale implementation of cable barriers.

I also have doubts whether cable-barriers are actually that unsafe for motorcyclists. It seems to me that the posts are the most dangerous item of crash barriers, and both metal barriers and cable barriers have them. How many motorcyclists are actually killed in such crashes that would have otherwise survived if there would've been metal crash barrier? Probably very few.

Riding a motorcycle is inherently dangerous, with or without cable barriers. If you want to get through traffic safely, sell your motorcycle, or accept the risk.
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Old October 19th, 2014, 10:47 PM   #2164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbicide View Post
I'd ad another con: they're uglier than other guard rails.
I personally think this type of cable barrier is pretty good looking




Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Well, the numbers support that Sweden is consistently in the top 3 safest countries in the world. With large-scale implementation of cable barriers.

I also have doubts whether cable-barriers are actually that unsafe for motorcyclists. It seems to me that the posts are the most dangerous item of crash barriers, and both metal barriers and cable barriers have them. How many motorcyclists are actually killed in such crashes that would have otherwise survived if there would've been metal crash barrier? Probably very few.

Riding a motorcycle is inherently dangerous, with or without cable barriers. If you want to get through traffic safely, sell your motorcycle, or accept the risk.
This is exactly what some swedish studies conclude. Apparently barriers of all types are actually more dangerous to bikers than not having barriers at all. The most dangerous part of the guard rail are the posts and other extremities and both cable barriers and standard W-beams have plenty of those. That's why trafikverket install slide protection barriers on some accident prone curves, like this:



BTW, Birsta 1P actually seems pretty awesome. Hopefullt we'll see more of it on swedish roads in the future.

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Old October 19th, 2014, 11:15 PM   #2165
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I think that Chris is right about cable barriers.
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Old October 20th, 2014, 10:05 AM   #2166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I also have doubts whether cable-barriers are actually that unsafe for motorcyclists. It seems to me that the posts are the most dangerous item of crash barriers, and both metal barriers and cable barriers have them. How many motorcyclists are actually killed in such crashes that would have otherwise survived if there would've been metal crash barrier? Probably very few.
If a motorcyclist hits a barrier at 120 km/h, the probability to be killed may be 99.6% at a metal barrier and 99.8% at a cable carrier. Even if the probability to survive might be double at a metal barrier, it still is negligible.

Last edited by MattiG; October 20th, 2014 at 10:07 AM. Reason: typo
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Old October 20th, 2014, 10:22 AM   #2167
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Cable barriers are much better than ordinary barriers!
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Old October 20th, 2014, 08:52 PM   #2168
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Question:
How do these new cable wire barriers fare against impacts from trucks and heavy big rigs?
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Old October 21st, 2014, 01:28 AM   #2169
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Wire guardrails are clearly better for trucks than no barriers, although they works best for cars. With regards to MCs, concrete barriers and steel guardrails with protected posts (as shown by Shifty2k5) work best, ordinary steel guardrails works second best, whereas wire guardrails pose a significant higher risk according to a DECRA/University of Monash study http://nmcu.org/files/Germany%20and%...riers_2005.pdf

Note that the relevant speed for roads using such guardrails not necessarily is as high as 120.

Even if the wire result was based only on simulations, it has been enough to make the bikers' associations strongly opposed. What is currently installed on Norwegian 1+1/1+2,are similar to the Birsta, but with a cylindrical rail and posts:
.
These would probably have been even better for the bikers with some lower post protection, but that would have created a barrier for smaller wildlife.
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Old October 21st, 2014, 03:41 AM   #2170
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What about Italian-style guard-rails


(C)autobrennero.it


Source
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Old October 21st, 2014, 04:15 AM   #2171
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it looks like the Italians just recycled a plan to build a railway except they held it at 90 degrees to make autostrada instead
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Old October 22nd, 2014, 01:42 AM   #2172
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Via Ferrata :-p
Seriously, these barriers most likely have higher containment. The lower version probably also offers better protection for skidding bicycles. On the negative side, these barriers will be a serious barrier for larger wildlife, and the lower one also for smaller animals, meaning that there must be outer fences to keep the animals out as well as wildlife crossings. Particularly in the Nordics, with moose running around, wildlife can actually be a significant traffic hazard. Hence, together with the large amount of iron used, this will be a comparatively expensive solution. Another factor is that the crash barriers should not be too tall on winding 1+1 roads as the line of sight for the driver will be significantly impaired.
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Old October 22nd, 2014, 01:55 PM   #2173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shifty2k5 View Post
I would also like to add that the swedish road authorities strategy when it comes to guard rails make little sense. E.g. the recently opened E22 Rolsberga-Fogdarp in Skåne, which is 19m wide just like the E22 in Sölvesborg, was given a rigid (Birsta 1P) guardrail. I also know that trafikverket replaced long stretches of cable barrier with Birsta 1P on other parts of the E22 in Skåne this summer. Another example is the E4 where long stretches (hundred of kilometers) in Småland and Gävleborg had W-beams installed last year despite the fact that most of these parts have wide grassy medians. It makes little sense to me..
VV Skåne do have higher standards in general when doing anything and the signing is done better too IMHO, so most likely it's a local thing where the boss of E22 Skåne has chosen Birsta over wires.
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Old October 24th, 2014, 09:43 PM   #2174
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here is the new intersection at Jung which is prepared for motorway

https://www.google.se/maps/@58.32939...QyXQ!2e0?hl=sv
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Old October 25th, 2014, 02:29 PM   #2175
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R40 bridge over Vist industry (320 m)







Source: ut.se
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Old November 2nd, 2014, 01:51 AM   #2176
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E4 Sundsvall

Two links from a local newspaper showing the southern part of E4 Sundsvall. South of the new bridge to be precise.


Speedrun video


Guided tour of the stretch. Only in Swedish
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 03:56 AM   #2177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
What about Italian-style guard-rails


(C)autobrennero.it
That is some badass guardrail in the top pic.
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 12:20 PM   #2178
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News about Stockholm's Norra Länken:

Guy from Örebro followed the directions from his GPS navigaotr and ended up in the tunnel. The workers got him to stop, said it might be a crime for him to be there, laughed it off and then gave him directions for getting out.

Link to news:
In Swedish
Google translate don't like the page format at Aftonbladet right now though, it seems.
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 01:24 PM   #2179
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So noone wrote about the postponing of the Stockholm Bypass yet (Förbifart Stockholm)

The planned express highway between the E 4/E 20 at Kungens Kurva in the south of Stockholm and the E 4 at Häggvik north of Stockholm.
Critics say that the new motorway will result in a substantial increase in the use of cars and trucks as means of transportation

Will this project be halted until the rightwing parties will reign again ?
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 07:10 PM   #2180
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So noone wrote about the postponing of the Stockholm Bypass yet (Förbifart Stockholm)

The planned express highway between the E 4/E 20 at Kungens Kurva in the south of Stockholm and the E 4 at Häggvik north of Stockholm.
Critics say that the new motorway will result in a substantial increase in the use of cars and trucks as means of transportation

Will this project be halted until the rightwing parties will reign again ?
At the moment it seems like the project just will postponed for half a year for political reasons. Then the greens can say they really tried to stop it and failed and the social democrats can say they held their word to get the project started, just a little delayd. All this at the expence the tax payers. That´s my take on the question.
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