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Old February 23rd, 2015, 11:43 AM   #2301
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Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Another question: how does Norra Länken, when finished, affect the Stockholm congestion toll?

For instance, will there be toll for driving between Värtan (TallinkSilja terminal) and Nordtull?
Yes. Värtan is inside the congestion charge area so leaving the CC area means passing the toll line.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 11:56 AM   #2302
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Originally Posted by Swede View Post
Yes. Värtan is inside the congestion charge area so leaving the CC area means passing the toll line.
So it's better to drive to Norrtull using old streets for free.

The fastest route from Värtan to E4 southbound is apparently Norra Länken to Nordtull and E4 from there, but until all the tunnels are completed, this would involve crossing the toll line three times instead of one. Have I understood this correctly?
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 01:58 PM   #2303
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huh? that's free? Not according to what I'm reading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by https://transportstyrelsen.se/sv/Nyhetsarkiv/Trangselskatt-i-Norra-lanken/
– Att åka via Norra länken innebär i praktiken ingen fördyring för fordonsägaren. Tidigare har man åkt via Norrtull och betalat trängselskatt. Nu åker man via Norra länken och betalar trängselskatt. Skillnaden är att trängselskatten för Norra länken kommer att tas bort i framtiden, konstaterar Anna Elvkull.
So you pay the toll once either way.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 02:51 PM   #2304
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Originally Posted by Shifty2k5 View Post


Have you experienced jams in jönköping on your travels? Cause I live here and the only queue I've ever been in on the E4 were because of accidents.
A few times in summer...
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 02:55 PM   #2305
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Most ppl believe Swedes are pretty smart, fact is ppl here are educated, there is a huge difference and this project is a another good example of the difference, the guys pulling this BS has tons of degrees I'm sure.
Bollucks. There a dumb people, there a smart people everywhere. Only because some people in Sweden had a bright idea doesn't make an entire country smart. I have met some pretty dumb Swedes as well, they usually have shaved heads and large beards, which seems to be the fashion over there. If your statement is that most "ppl" believe that Swedes are pretty smart - a comment coming from a Swede - then one might question your intelligence. Like I said - dumb people, smart people everywhere. It's who you let in charge running a country is what matters.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 03:21 PM   #2306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Draft is the distance between the sea level and the bottom-most point of a ship. But my question was answered anyway, it's 8 m.
OK I was misinformed. 8m depth is very shallow, probably thats why it was possible to build the artficial island Peberholm in the Öresund strait.

The Fehmarn belt is much deeper 20-30m, so engineering a road connection here is going to be more demanding. Still not as deep as the english channel at 50m depth.

I think that both the Öresund & Store Belt bridges are more important connections than the future Fehmarn tunnel. Maybe that's why they already have been built.

The Öresund-bridge generates traffic because it is connecting two major cities at close distance. The bridge is used by job commuters. Especially Kastrup International Airport is an important destination for those who live on the other side of the strait.

The Store Belt bridge is important because it is the only roadlink between two regions of a densely populated country. Nationwide traffic is more large scale than international traffic.

The future Fehmarn tunnel is not located at any major cities and it is not a roadlink that brings one country together. So it's going to be more expensive and less important than the Store Belt & Öresund-bridges.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 03:31 PM   #2307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swede View Post
huh? that's free? Not according to what I'm reading.

So you pay the toll once either way.
Driving from Värtan to Norrtull (and continuing to, say, Norra stationsgatan) using old streets is free. And yes, accessing E4 from Norrtull is tolled.

However, as Norra Länken is not finished, all traffic from Värtan to E4 southbound must exit and go via Norrtull, according to this map http://www.trafikverket.se/PageFiles..._2014_2015.pdf. The big question is, exactly where in the new tunnel the tolling point is located.

EDIT: I found the answer in your link above. So one can enter the tunnel at Värtan, exit at Roslagstull and go on to Norrtull (and not enter E4) for free. Or enter E4 and pay once but no more.

For E4 northbound the tunnel is ready already, and in that tunnel there is a tolling point.
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Last edited by OulaL; February 23rd, 2015 at 05:10 PM.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 04:14 PM   #2308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shifty2k5 View Post
Have you experienced jams in jönköping on your travels? Cause I live here and the only queue I've ever been in on the E4 were because of accidents.
I think it has to do with either roadworks or accidents. I pass through Jönköping once a year heading south on vacation and queues are not uncommon. Last year there was no congestion but in 2013 the traffic stopped completely and I actually went out of my car on the motorway looking for how long the queue of vehicles was. Is that legal ?




Roadworks summer of 2013


This is the usual traffic volume through Jönköping.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 09:49 PM   #2309
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My favorite road sign in Sweden..



Least favorite

Where is the "dot ." like other countries? ! <----
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 10:24 PM   #2310
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Originally Posted by -Valentino- View Post
Where is the "dot ." like other countries?
Probably a left-over from the 40s and 50s. Sweden got a lot of its signage from Germany, and they used this from after the war until 1971.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 10:39 PM   #2311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
OK I was misinformed. 8m depth is very shallow, probably thats why it was possible to build the artficial island Peberholm in the Öresund strait.
The authorized draught of a vessel is not the same thing as the depth of the sea at the fairway. There is always some buffer for the vessel's vertical movements. There is about 10 meters of vertical clearance between the tunnel and the mean sea level:



Quote:
The Fehmarn belt is much deeper 20-30m, so engineering a road connection here is going to be more demanding. Still not as deep as the english channel at 50m depth.
Still not a big issue. There are several undersea tunnels at the level of 200+ meters in Norway; the deepest being Eiksundtunnelen at -287 meters. If the maximum allowed ascend is 4%, 2x2500 meters of access road is needed for each 100 meters of tunnel depth. (The Norwedian standards are different: The maximum ascend in Eiksundtunnelen is 9.6%.)

Quote:
The future Fehmarn tunnel is not located at any major cities and it is not a roadlink that brings one country together. So it's going to be more expensive and less important than the Store Belt & Öresund-bridges.
I think most of the traffic on the current Puttgarten-Rødby ferry route is not local one but long-haul traffic. It is the main transport corridor from Sweden, Norway, Finland and the Copenhagen area to the Central Europe. It saves 150 kilometers to the Great Belt Bridge. The saving is bigger if the destination lies to the east of Hamburg. In addition, the duration of the crossing equals to the duration of the mandatory break of the drivers.

The success of the business case of the Fehmarn tunnel depends on the pricing. The current ferry price is the baseline to compare. For goods transport, the tunnel price should perhaps be slightly lower than the ferry price to be attractive because of the lost advantage related to mandatory breaks.
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Last edited by MattiG; February 23rd, 2015 at 11:33 PM.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 11:02 PM   #2312
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Originally Posted by riiga View Post
Probably a left-over from the 40s and 50s. Sweden got a lot of its signage from Germany, and they used this from after the war until 1971.
Finland used the vertical bar version until 1994 when the exclamation mark version was introduced. The vertical bars should have disappeared by 1999, but they still remain in a few places.

The Swedish version conforms to the text of the Vienna Convention. It allows the member countries to use about any symbol shape resembling the model shape shown by the convention.
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Old February 24th, 2015, 02:49 PM   #2313
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Infographic from trafikverket showing how lanes will be configured under hagastaden and the e4 tunnels.



webcam showing the tunnels under construction, note the garage being constructed which will be the biggest underground garage in Sweden with room for 1340 cars.



This image (rather old by now I assume) was posted by dj4life on the Swedish forum. It shows the new hospital and the solna-part of Hagastaden. The tunnels are visible on the right.

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Old February 24th, 2015, 05:11 PM   #2314
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Doesn't look so old actually. The space to the bottom left is really close to my work. Before there used to be big rocks there. It's at most 2-3 months old I'd imagine.
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Old February 26th, 2015, 11:41 AM   #2315
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It's clearly from last summer or fall, so before mid-October I'd say. So at least 4 months old. The shade of green on the trees and the uniformity of the foliage makes me think it's more summer than fall though. I'd guess August or early September?
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Old February 26th, 2015, 04:39 PM   #2316
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It's clearly from last summer or fall, so before mid-October I'd say. So at least 4 months old. The shade of green on the trees and the uniformity of the foliage makes me think it's more summer than fall though. I'd guess August or early September?
Let us look at the crane at the front. It casts a shadow which is almost parallel to Solnavägen. The compass direction of Solnavägen is about 130 degrees. Thus, the azimuth of the Sun is about 135 degrees. The shooting time of the photo is about 10:30 AM.

The size of the shadow is about the same as the shadow of the crane, perhaps slightly less. Thus, the altitude of the Sun is about 45-50 degrees from the horizon. Such conditions take place in Stockholm from early June to mid-August. Due to the deep green shades, it is not June. I would vote the first half of August.
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Old February 26th, 2015, 08:42 PM   #2317
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I was just going by the amount of stone they'd blown up outside my lab window!
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Old February 26th, 2015, 08:58 PM   #2318
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Some advice would be appreciated again.

Is it possible to park a car (or van, actually) anywhere within the Stockholm toll ring for a day for free? And if not, is it cheaper to pay for the parking, or pay the toll twice (plus some extra fuel) to park elsewhere?

Asking just in case I'd make a transport from Finland, enter and exit by ferry, and need a place to spend the extra time.
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Old February 26th, 2015, 09:52 PM   #2319
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Really, all this to avoid 20kr?
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Old February 26th, 2015, 10:43 PM   #2320
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Really, all this to avoid 20kr?
Double that. And of course the hassle to pay anything to a foreign country using a foreign currency. (Not sure how they collect the fare from foreigners anyway, though.)

And there's more: I would also like to have a place to spend some time for myself, not just for the car. Obviously, there are more opportunities to do so in Stockholm than elsewhere.

And since I really don't need to drive anywhere, except my customer's destination (within the toll ring) and then back to the ferry (also within the toll ring), why should I? Except maybe because the parking would be even more a hassle, and that's what I was asking here. It's not that I'd dislike driving - I do it for living - but I still don't do that 1) needlessly 2) in urban areas 3) with a van.

And finally, simple curiosity. I guess that's what >90 % of the usage on this forum is all about, anyway.
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