daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old September 22nd, 2009, 12:08 PM   #421
kanterberg
Registered User
 
kanterberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 176
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
1960's planning or not, the traffic volumes surely justify a freeway through the center, as you said 130.000 AADT. Freeways near city centers are a necessary evil. Try to imagine what happens if you want to handle 130.000 vehicles per day through narrow surface streets. You can handle 130.000 on 6 lanes freeflowing, but you need 10 - 12 when there are traffic lights. I never understood why some people even advocate to tear down high volumes freeways and replace it with a boulevard.

The congestion will last all day long, emissions will significantly increase, the entire city center would be choked with traffic, and may even lose some competitiveness and liveability.
I agree, the traffic volume certainly justifies a freeway through the city center. My point is that nowadays it would be impossible to suggest tearing down 18th century castles in the historical old town to build a 3x3 freeway. That sort of urban development, where new roads and freeways had priority over everything else, certainly isn't something we should go back to.

However, just wishing away the cars from the city center is not going to work either. This is the very reason why Centralbron is so congested - no major roads have been built and a lot of people are forced to drive through the city center even if their destination is nowhere near the center.

Building the by-pass, and hopefully at some point the eastern section of the ring-road, will move traffic away from the inner-city and at the same time give the Stockholm region room to grow.

I'm all for building new motorways and think it is plain unrealistic to suggest that any large city can continue to grow without them. But you have to agree that it can be done in different ways... look at this picture of Centralbron; surely we could have found a better place for that road than 100 m from the Parliament and the Royal Palace?

[IMG]http://i35.************/2ahb4a9.jpg[/IMG]
kanterberg no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old September 22nd, 2009, 10:08 PM   #422
Sideshow_Bob
\m/
 
Sideshow_Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 1,515
Likes (Received): 7

/\ The best thing about that road though, is that it's hardly noticed as a pedestrian, unless you walk from gamla stan to riddarholmen.
__________________
and then they run
Sideshow_Bob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2009, 12:05 AM   #423
Dahlis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 837
Likes (Received): 107

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I'm sorry to burst that bubble, but people are moving out of city centers and surrounding areas for decades. The problem is city centers are either overpriced housing or social housing, most families don't want or can't live in either one.

Strict land control causes housing bubbles because they become unaffordable, that's why you need suburbs which are less dense. Of course, a city full of skyscrapers and high density housing is very cool and urbanistic, but you also have to be realistic, they appeal to a limited audience. Sweden is not Hong Kong or Japan.

Look at the city of Amsterdam for instance. About 70% of the housing is social housing for low income groups. The rest are owner housing with a median housing price of 600.000 euros. Which means this is unaffordable for about any median income group. So everybody moves out to surrounding suburbs, leaving the city with a lot of low income groups and a sizeable group of the very rich, but Joe office job is barely present in the city.
People moved out of stockholm city centre in the 50s and 60s because they where forced. People did not want to move to the new modernistic suburbs because they where just that suburbs. These suburbs ended up with a lot of social problems when only those who couldnt afford to live elswhere stayed there.

Im not argueing in favour of a futuristic skyscraper city, im in favour of a traditional european block structure city with good communications in form of metro, tram, train, boats and busses, and if you have to car.
Dahlis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2009, 07:52 AM   #424
LtBk
Registered User
 
LtBk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Greater Baltimore
Posts: 3,103
Likes (Received): 3711

Not anybody can't live in the central city, but that doesn't mean suburbia has to be car centric sprawl like those in the US.
LtBk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2009, 10:21 AM   #425
Slaughtersun
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1
Likes (Received): 0

A project that hopefully will start next year:

Slaughtersun no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2009, 06:08 PM   #426
fetg_
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 250
Likes (Received): 17

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlis View Post
People moved out of stockholm city centre in the 50s and 60s because they where forced. People did not want to move to the new modernistic suburbs because they where just that suburbs. These suburbs ended up with a lot of social problems when only those who couldnt afford to live elswhere stayed there.

Im not argueing in favour of a futuristic skyscraper city, im in favour of a traditional european block structure city with good communications in form of metro, tram, train, boats and busses, and if you have to car.
Last year(2008), the municipal of Stockholm lost 3.082 to other less dense municapals in the county.
http://www.scb.se/Pages/TableAndChart____262456.aspx

It's hard to keep a small central appartment when the family is growing, so you get more space both inside and outside when moving to an own town house with your own garden where the kids can play.
fetg_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2009, 04:16 PM   #427
metasmurf
Registered User
 
metasmurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Umeň, Sweden
Posts: 374
Likes (Received): 555

E12 between Storuman and Tńrnaby (pic taken by me)

metasmurf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2009, 02:52 AM   #428
metasmurf
Registered User
 
metasmurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Umeň, Sweden
Posts: 374
Likes (Received): 555

Video - E4 Stockholm (Essingeleden)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqkKE0JS3Lg
metasmurf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2010, 11:10 AM   #429
jtybinka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Krakow
Posts: 253
Likes (Received): 57

How many kilometres of 2x2 (2x3) motorways are there in Sweden
I mean "real" motorways with 2 seperated roads and junctions
jtybinka no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2010, 04:44 PM   #430
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,624
Likes (Received): 19421

Streetview in Sweden

Streetview has also conquered Sweden!

[IMG]http://i48.************/2cwq4iq.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i50.************/2mocu3t.jpg[/IMG]
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 22nd, 2010, 02:07 AM   #431
Morsue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 1,282
Likes (Received): 46

Similar to the service found on hitta.se, but the other one is more focused on towns whereas Google seem to be focusing a lot on intercity roads. Interesting that they're covering so much of the North. Looks like the Stockholm pictures were taken in July, I remember that roadwork on Chris's picture.

Last edited by Morsue; January 22nd, 2010 at 02:14 AM.
Morsue no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 24th, 2010, 01:57 AM   #432
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,624
Likes (Received): 19421

As I was browsing through Street View the other day, I noticed Sundsvall is used as a control city from both Stockholm as from the Finnish border on E4.

Why is this city so prominently signed? Is it just because it's more or less halfway through Sweden? Because cities in central Sweden en-route like Gńvle and Uppsala are larger, as well as Umeň in northern Sweden, and Piteň en Luleň are cities of similar significance as Sundsvall.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 24th, 2010, 04:57 AM   #433
metasmurf
Registered User
 
metasmurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Umeň, Sweden
Posts: 374
Likes (Received): 555

Double post

Last edited by metasmurf; January 24th, 2010 at 05:02 AM. Reason: Double post
metasmurf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 24th, 2010, 05:01 AM   #434
metasmurf
Registered User
 
metasmurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Umeň, Sweden
Posts: 374
Likes (Received): 555

I dont know the particular reason, but north of Sundsvall they sign for Haparanda (4 778 inhabitants) which is a pretty small town compared to Umeň and Luleň. Guess because it's the endpoint of E4 in Sweden (It goes 0,8km in to Finland as well). Similarly to Sundsvall, on E6 in Norway they sign for Narvik north of Trondheim even though there's a town closer, and bigger (Bod÷). Guess they just choose some towns from their geographical positions (halfway/endpoint
metasmurf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2010, 01:06 AM   #435
metasmurf
Registered User
 
metasmurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Umeň, Sweden
Posts: 374
Likes (Received): 555

Swedish mountainroads, part 1

E12 between Norwegian border and Hemavan



Kaalasjńrvi, east of Kiruna (uknown roadnumber)

metasmurf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2010, 02:31 AM   #436
metasmurf
Registered User
 
metasmurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Umeň, Sweden
Posts: 374
Likes (Received): 555

Swedish mountainroads, part 2

Riksvńg 95 Arjeplog - Norwegian border



E10 Kiruna - Norwegian border

metasmurf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2010, 05:10 AM   #437
Morsue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 1,282
Likes (Received): 46

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
As I was browsing through Street View the other day, I noticed Sundsvall is used as a control city from both Stockholm as from the Finnish border on E4.

Why is this city so prominently signed? Is it just because it's more or less halfway through Sweden? Because cities in central Sweden en-route like Gńvle and Uppsala are larger, as well as Umeň in northern Sweden, and Piteň en Luleň are cities of similar significance as Sundsvall.
Signing Sundsvall is probably because it's where the E4 meets the E14 and thus is the most natural road to take from Stockholm to the most major northern Norwegian town (Trondheim). Sundsvall is also at a reasonable distance from both Haparanda (the northern end) and Stockholm (the true infrastructural node of Sweden).
Morsue no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2010, 12:15 PM   #438
Kjello0
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Trondheim
Posts: 394
Likes (Received): 70

I'm pretty sure that the connection to Ístersund and ┼re is more important than Trondheim when you look from Stockholm. Most traffic going from Trondheim to Stockholm travels via Tynset and Mora. Sundsvall is also the last bigger city north of Stockholm that's still within a reasonable distance (376 km). Umeň is not that much bigger than Sundsvall and to far away (639 km) to be signposted all the way from Stockholm when you got Sundsvall earlier. If Umeň was twice as big as today I'm pretty sure Umeň would have been signposted instead. Looking from Haparanda Sundsvall is also the third bigger city going south. Luleň, Umeň and Sundsvall. Sundsvall is also kind of the gateway to southern Sweden.

When it comes to Norway and Narvik being signposted all the way from Trondheim it's mainly due to Narviks position as an important port and the connection between Narvik and Northern Sweden with both railway and E 10. Bod° which is a much bigger city and closer to Trondheim doesn't lie along E 6 and is therefor not natural to signpost.
Kjello0 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 26th, 2010, 03:04 PM   #439
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,624
Likes (Received): 19421

High Coast Bridge on E4.
[IMG]http://i49.************/15xs3ft.jpg[/IMG]
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 27th, 2010, 02:47 PM   #440
Maxx☢Power
BANNED
 
Maxx☢Power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 387
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morsue View Post
Signing Sundsvall is probably because it's where the E4 meets the E14 and thus is the most natural road to take from Stockholm to the most major northern Norwegian town (Trondheim). Sundsvall is also at a reasonable distance from both Haparanda (the northern end) and Stockholm (the true infrastructural node of Sweden).
Sundsvall is also used as a control city on the E14 from Trondheim IIRC. There are lots of signs pointing in the direction of "[E14] Sundsvall" in Trondheim city centre. This makes sense though, as there's not that much of interest on the E14 between Trondheim and Sundsvall, except maybe ┼re and Ístersund, but they're in the middle of nowhere.
Maxx☢Power no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium