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Old August 16th, 2011, 10:50 PM   #901
Durin
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Ended up in a traffic jam on the E22 Malmö-Lund today (locally referred to as "autostradan") during rush hour. Complete chaos at the Lund south exit and on towards Malmö. Could have been an accident I suppose, but what's the normal AADT for this stretch?

I tried finding out myself on the Trafikverket website but I honestly don't know the abbreviation for AADT in Swedish.
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Old August 16th, 2011, 10:54 PM   #902
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Old August 16th, 2011, 10:55 PM   #903
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A traffic jam in Sweden! Very unusual indeed. Have been in a few though, at Gothenburg, at the interchange at Jonkoping, and obviously the E4/E20 at Stockholm. Ridiculous speed limits going through Stockholm, by the way. 80 km/h where 100 would be more then normal. Same for Helsinki, Finland.
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Old August 16th, 2011, 11:45 PM   #904
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Hmm, tried that link before and it never worked. Until now... Thx Chris!

An AADT of 38.000 Malmö-Lund almost justifies a 2x3 stretch, under Swedish standards, that is. This stretch should really be widened, being the oldest motorway in Sweden it doesn't even feature hard shoulders at its overpasses. As far as I know the Lund south ramps are to be rebuilt and widened. I hope this will accommodate space for a future widening.

@Road UK: Sweden has a lot of motorways built in or near city centres. In many other countries these would be designated urban expressways. Great examples are Stockholm, Gothenburg and Jönköping. I suppose the 80 kph speed limit is mainly for noise reduction. The Essingeleden in Stockholm passes only a km or two from the centre and a lot of housing is just next door to the motorway. What Stockholm desperately needs is an outer bypass (soon to be u/c) that will allow for higher speeds.
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Old August 16th, 2011, 11:51 PM   #905
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I just realised that the speed limit at the Essingeleden (that's the bit near exit for ferries to Finland, right? near that tunnel) isn't 80 but 70 km/h.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 12:25 AM   #906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
I just realised that the speed limit at the Essingeleden (that's the bit near exit for ferries to Finland, right? near that tunnel) isn't 80 but 70 km/h.
Yes. It is an urban motorway of 4+4 lanes, and nine exits within eight kilometres, and AADT of 170,000. The low speed limit is rather well justified.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 12:34 AM   #907
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I just realised that the speed limit at the Essingeleden (that's the bit near exit for ferries to Finland, right? near that tunnel) isn't 80 but 70 km/h.


The Essingeleden is basically the bridge structures carrying the E4 and E20 across the water from the south-west to the north-west and there's the Fredhäll tunnel immediately after the bridges. I'm not sure of the current speed limit, but seems justified, being more of an urban expressway: http://maps.google.ie/maps?saddr=Unk...src=6&t=h&z=14

After Essingeleden the E4 and E20 splits, the E4 heading north and the E20 heading east onto the city streets toward the Northside ferry terminal Värtan: http://maps.google.ie/maps?saddr=Unk...src=6&t=h&z=13 (there's also a large ferry terminal on the Southside after a long motorway tunnel: http://maps.google.ie/maps?saddr=Rou...src=6&t=h&z=14). The E20 city stretch is currently being converted into an underground motorway called Norra länken (The Northern link).
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Old August 17th, 2011, 12:44 AM   #908
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Originally Posted by Durin View Post
Hmm, tried that link before and it never worked. Until now... Thx Chris!

An AADT of 38.000 Malmö-Lund almost justifies a 2x3 stretch, under Swedish standards, that is. This stretch should really be widened, being the oldest motorway in Sweden it doesn't even feature hard shoulders at its overpasses. As far as I know the Lund south ramps are to be rebuilt and widened. I hope this will accommodate space for a future widening.

@Road UK: Sweden has a lot of motorways built in or near city centres. In many other countries these would be designated urban expressways. Great examples are Stockholm, Gothenburg and Jönköping. I suppose the 80 kph speed limit is mainly for noise reduction. The Essingeleden in Stockholm passes only a km or two from the centre and a lot of housing is just next door to the motorway. What Stockholm desperately needs is an outer bypass (soon to be u/c) that will allow for higher speeds.
The obvious problem is that there is still no national standard after implementing the new speed limit scheme. Some urban motorways have 120 (Halmstad), some 100 (Västerås), some 90 (Gothenburg, most of Stockholm) and some even 70, like Essingeleden in Stockholm. On the other hand, with Essingeleden's 160 000 AADT and multiple exits it's kind of hard to drive faster than that anyway.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 01:01 AM   #909
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The obvious problem is that there is still no national standard after implementing the new speed limit scheme. Some urban motorways have 120 (Halmstad), some 100 (Västerås), some 90 (Gothenburg, most of Stockholm) and some even 70, like Essingeleden in Stockholm.
I suppose this really has to do with local government having a lot to say about speed limits, even on motorways. Be it county or city councils.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 01:04 AM   #910
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/.../Ridiculous speed limits going through Stockholm, by the way. 80 km/h where 100 would be more then normal. Same for Helsinki, Finland.
On the other hand, it's a well known fact that countries with relatively low speed limits (UK, Sweden, the Netherlands) are also the safest countries to drive in...

With that said I still think motorway speed limits could be raised without compromising safety. The Danish example shows the way.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 02:29 AM   #911
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Curious, do alot of people actually go that speed? Can't imagine not going at least 120 on a motorway if there's no traffic
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Old August 17th, 2011, 08:21 AM   #912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanterberg View Post
On the other hand, it's a well known fact that countries with relatively low speed limits (UK, Sweden, the Netherlands) are also the safest countries to drive in...

With that said I still think motorway speed limits could be raised without compromising safety. The Danish example shows the way.
Yes. We established on the Denmark thread that by pushing up the speed limits a little bit, it actually reduces accident.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 09:47 AM   #913
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There is 70km/h on E6 near Liseberg and trough Tingstadtunnel in Göteborg, and also a 70km/h piece on Rv40 trough Borås...

I wouldn't exactly call E6 trough Halmstad urban. However E6 trough Ljungskile comes to mind (110km/h).
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Old August 17th, 2011, 10:21 AM   #914
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Curious, do alot of people actually go that speed? Can't imagine not going at least 120 on a motorway if there's no traffic
Of course you could, if the alignment does meet the standards for going 120 you wouldn't travel at that speed. Essingeleden was designed for 70 and the curves along the way don't let you do much more than that. Essingeleden is as pointed out above Sweden's most congested road and it's only during about 19-06 on weekdays and on weekends you can travel at any higher speed even on the straight parts because of the heavy traffic and constant interchanges.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 11:31 AM   #915
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On the other hand, it's a well known fact that countries with relatively low speed limits (UK, Sweden, the Netherlands) are also the safest countries to drive in...
On the other hand, it's also a fact the motorway fatality rate in the United States (low speed limits) is usually 2 - 3 times higher than in European countries which have mostly 120 - 130 km/h speed limits. Fatality rates in Europe are so low on motorways it's hard to make a conclusion. Three or four deadly accidents can already make a few percent change on the yearly statistics. For instance, only 33 people were killed on Dutch motorways in 2010, and (off the top off my head) 19 in Denmark.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 12:15 PM   #916
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On the other hand, it's also a fact the motorway fatality rate in the United States (low speed limits) is usually 2 - 3 times higher than in European countries which have mostly 120 - 130 km/h speed limits. Fatality rates in Europe are so low on motorways it's hard to make a conclusion. Three or four deadly accidents can already make a few percent change on the yearly statistics. For instance, only 33 people were killed on Dutch motorways in 2010, and (off the top off my head) 19 in Denmark.
It's hard to compare US Interstates to European motorways. In the US you'll often see interstates without proper crash barriers and sometimes with just a grass median in the middle. Not to mention a traffic culture where undertaking is common, 16-year olds are allowed to drive and the legal limit is 0.08 in many states.

Road safety isn't all about speed limits, but I'm sure we can agree it is one of the aspects? Obviously median dividers between opposite-direction traffic is the most effective step to take for any country wishing to reduce accidents.

With median dividers you can even raise the speed limit, the Swedish 2+1 roads with a steel cable median divider is a great example: near-motorway road safety AND a raised speed limit!
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Old August 17th, 2011, 12:46 PM   #917
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I have just google-maped the Gothenburg, any idea why the highway 159 is not marked as a motorway? Seems that it fully performs motorway standards. And it is certainly good for the city to have full beltway (being a urban motorway in most cases), what's the AADT?
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Old August 17th, 2011, 01:59 PM   #918
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I have just google-maped the Gothenburg, any idea why the highway 159 is not marked as a motorway? Seems that it fully performs motorway standards. And it is certainly good for the city to have full beltway (being a urban motorway in most cases), what's the AADT?
According to http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A4nsv%C3%A4g_159 the road number isn't actually 159 anymore. Regarding the motorway status - it's common, especially in Gothenburg, not to sign an urban expressway as motorway. This is partly to counter public opinion against urban motorways.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 05:52 PM   #919
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According to http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A4nsv%C3%A4g_159 the road number isn't actually 159 anymore. Regarding the motorway status - it's common, especially in Gothenburg, not to sign an urban expressway as motorway. This is partly to counter public opinion against urban motorways.
When it comes to the Älvsborg bridge part, i believe it carries a fair amount of city buses, limiting its' potential as a motorway. Slow traffic was recently banned according to the article, but basically this bridge still serves as the only local western connection across the Göta river. The situation reminds me of that of the A282 Dartford Crossing in Eastern London, not under motorway restrictions and not officially part of the M25.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 06:15 PM   #920
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Road safety isn't all about speed limits, but I'm sure we can agree it is one of the aspects? Obviously median dividers between opposite-direction traffic is the most effective step to take for any country wishing to reduce accidents.

With median dividers you can even raise the speed limit, the Swedish 2+1 roads with a steel cable median divider is a great example: near-motorway road safety AND a raised speed limit!
I believe the motorway parts of E4 through Småland (Helsingborg-Jönköping) could easily handle higher speed limits with a few upgrades of crash-barriers and such. It carries little traffic and is for most of its' stretch straight as an airport runway. Many of the spankin' new Polish motorways carry on straight for miles through remote areas and dense forests (but with a 140 kph limit), just as the E4 does. Would be interesting to compare the accident record of these with the E4 once they've been in use for some time.
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