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Old January 7th, 2012, 12:45 PM   #1121
kubam4a1
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Guys, don't complain on 2+2 grade separated road with AADT at the dumb level of 1xxxx (or less than 10000). Even without emergency lanes, this is a damn comfortable road to drive, fast and safe. When an projected long term AADT is not expected to exceed 30 000 vpd and the HGV share of traffic is less than 15 % this is a perfect cost-efficient solution.

In PL in the most cases (despite the ongoing construction) that would be 1+1 without any or with minor grade separation measures.
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Old January 7th, 2012, 01:13 PM   #1122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kubam4a1 View Post
....
If you're upset about motorway being constructed where the AADT is below 10 000, then E6 between Strömstad and Munkedal is a better example. Some parts are actually below 8000, and mind you, this is a 18,5m motorway classified road (there are still three short gaps which are u/c or planned.)

However, you can't just look at the AADT. You have to take other factors in to consideration, such as stategic importance, safety and seasonal variation in the amount of traffic.

With that being said, I do think parts of E6 could have gotten along just fine with the same sollution as E4 Hudiksvall. Another option would have been tolls, since the road is of a more strategic importance to Norway than Sweden.

Last edited by metasmurf; January 8th, 2012 at 12:30 PM.
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Old January 7th, 2012, 02:58 PM   #1123
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Ok,

Perhaps I misunderstood you a bit.

My point is definitely not being upset about a 10 000 (less) AADT motorway.

I just wanted to point out that for such a relatively low traffic level, a motorway-classified road fulfilling all the motorways standards that has narrow/no emergency lanes is enough, just like that shown above and no motorway, with say 3,5 m traffic and 2,5 emergency lanes as well as 120-130 speed limit is required.
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Old January 7th, 2012, 04:42 PM   #1124
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What's the speed limit, 110 or 100?
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Old January 7th, 2012, 08:15 PM   #1125
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What's the speed limit, 110 or 100?
110 km/h.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 01:02 AM   #1126
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How much more would it have costed to construct the new E4 as a narrow motorway instead of a 2+2 motortrafikled? Probably just another 30 million. This is the kind of short term planning I'm talking about, it's ridiculous.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 05:25 AM   #1127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metasmurf View Post
If you're upset about motorway being constructed where the AADT is below 10 000, then E6 between Strömstad and Munkedal is a better example. Some parts are actually below 8000, and mind you, this is a 18,5m motorway classified road (there are still three short gaps which are but u/c or planned.)

However, you can't just look at the AADT. You have to take other factors in to consideration, such as stategic importance, safety and seasonal variation in the amount of traffic.

With that being said, I do think parts of E6 could have gotten along just fine with the same sollution as E4 Hudiksvall. Another option would have been tolls, since the road is of a more strategic importance to Norway than Sweden.
+ the large share being truck traffic, the strategic link between Gothenburg harbor and south-eastern Norway, and the fact big parts of the project is EU-funded..
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Old January 8th, 2012, 07:32 PM   #1128
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Roundabout hell to strike E4 and Umeå this fall

The reconstruction of Kolbäcksvägen in Umeå which will be the new E4 route in Umeå is set to be finnished the 30th of September this year. This is what it will look like.



These six roundabouts, plus the additional two south of the bridges gives through traffic no less than eight roundabouts to steer through. Only one grade separated interchange will be constructed.

The road will be a 16,5m wide 2+2 road and 2+1 south of the current bridge (Kolbäcksbron) and over the bridge itself.

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Old January 8th, 2012, 10:46 PM   #1129
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Nice to see a good map of how it all will look with the new E4-stretch through Umeå, been a while since I checked it out on www.trafikverket.se or old www.vv.se.

It seems it won´t be exactly free flow at high speeds, but waaaay better than going straight through down town like to day atleast.
But the saddest thing I think is that it will go over Kolbäcksbron, which just istn´t wide enough for 4 lanes... Not very nice since it connects to the old stump of motorway (1971) just south of the bridge... So now it will be a short 2+1 road in the middle...

But the through traffic can´t be to much up in Umeå I´m guessing, you don´t happen to have any expected numbers?
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Old January 9th, 2012, 09:40 AM   #1130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by häggblom View Post
It seems it won´t be exactly free flow at high speeds, but waaaay better than going straight through down town like to day atleast.
The time saved for through traffic will be marginal.

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IBut the through traffic can´t be to much up in Umeå I´m guessing, you don´t happen to have any expected numbers?
Yes, through traffic probably isn't that high, as in most cases. The expected AADT in 2015 ranges from 12300-15400 with around 10% trucks.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 03:53 PM   #1131
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Quote:
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Yes, through traffic probably isn't that high, as in most cases. The expected AADT in 2015 ranges from 12300-15400 with around 10% trucks.
Erm, that would be enough to build a motorway, wouldn't it? Once again, a project that is only built half-assed. 8 roundabouts? Absurd.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 07:49 PM   #1132
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I have to agree on that. Even here in the country of road absurdity (Norway) they wouldn't get away with anything less than a motorway, when the AADT is above 12.000. In 2015. What about 2025? Short sighted.

Take away all the roundabouts and it might fly...
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Old January 9th, 2012, 09:19 PM   #1133
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How much more would it have costed to construct the new E4 as a narrow motorway instead of a 2+2 motortrafikled? Probably just another 30 million. This is the kind of short term planning I'm talking about, it's ridiculous.
The one by Hudiksvall you mean? I thought it was going to be labeled motorway?
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Old January 9th, 2012, 09:51 PM   #1134
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The one by Hudiksvall you mean? I thought it was going to be labeled motorway?
I thought so as well, but instead they labeled it as a motortrafikled and also changed the signing on the old stretch north of Söderhamn. No biggie, but it seems like building a proper motorway isn't that much more expensive.

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I have to agree on that. Even here in the country of road absurdity (Norway) they wouldn't get away with anything less than a motorway, when the AADT is above 12.000. In 2015. What about 2025? Short sighted.

Take away all the roundabouts and it might fly...
Quite surprising that Umeå kommun seems to be satisfied with this project. Umeå wants to double its population in 40 years, and this project is not enough for today's needs.
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Old January 10th, 2012, 01:11 AM   #1135
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Erm, that would be enough to build a motorway, wouldn't it? Once again, a project that is only built half-assed. 8 roundabouts? Absurd.
Yeah, thats quite alot actually! Then it seems very short sighted to build it the way they are doing!!

But only the real through traffic numbers can never be that high, right?
It must be that the road will be heavy used by local traffic in the city of Umeå also, with all the major hubs in the eastern area of town (uni. hospital and so on..) guess I should have understod that, since the "bypass" goes within the city limits.

I think the old E4 motorway bypass (1979) here in Gävle have like 15.000 - 16.000 AATD. But then the E4 ain´t much used by local traffic here, but it´s getting more and more popular, and the municipality is promoting it

By the way, a funny thing with Gävle traffic numbers I think is that our really old motorway riks-80 (as we say) have like almost double the traffic volume compared to E4.
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Old January 10th, 2012, 08:13 PM   #1136
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By the way, a funny thing with Gävle traffic numbers I think is that our really old motorway riks-80 (as we say) have like almost double the traffic volume compared to E4.
That's not surprising at all, since commuting between Sandviken and Gävle is quite popular. Most of the traffic on E4 is long distance traffic, so it makes sense that it has a lower AADT.
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Old January 10th, 2012, 10:00 PM   #1137
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That's not surprising at all, since commuting between Sandviken and Gävle is quite popular. Most of the traffic on E4 is long distance traffic, so it makes sense that it has a lower AADT.
Yezz, thats right Riks-80 (national route 80, soon to be E16) is by far the "nicest" entry to Gävle, our E4 just goes through the woods, and quite far away from the city, you almost don´t see anything of Gävle when traveling on E4... Some new areas and constructions are going up along E4 now and more planned but still....
I actually think Gävle has one of the most boring bypasses in Sweden

Riks-80 is much nicer in that sense, lots of built up areas along it (villa-suburb of Valbo and then Forsbacka also...) many exits and the big shopping center Valbo with Ikea, hotels and much more...

Also Riks-80 is actually one of Swedens oldest motorways!
It was built during the 1950s but with out completely grade separated interchanges, but smaller roads had underpasses. Was a really nice article about it in one of the local papers when it celebrated 50 years a few years ago, but can´t find it on the net now...

This is a pic of R80, taken by myself like 7 years ago
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Old January 10th, 2012, 10:10 PM   #1138
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And there was a 150 meter skyscraper shaped like a urinal planned for the junction E4/R80
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Old January 10th, 2012, 10:19 PM   #1139
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And there was a 150 meter skyscraper shaped like a urinal planned for the junction E4/R80
Hehe, thats right, sadly "it went down the drain..." much because the president of the local company who was behind it left and moved on to another job in an other part of Sweden...

Would have been cool as f-ck if it actually had been built!
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Old January 10th, 2012, 10:39 PM   #1140
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Cool picture häggblom! When was the roundabout built, and did it replace an intersection or did the motorway just continue before? I ask because I was intrigued by this since the sign that says "GÄVLE" just before the roundabout is green, i.e. motorway coloured.
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