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Old January 11th, 2013, 07:47 PM   #1521
kanterberg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceCheese View Post
I highly doubt foreign traffic is lower here than in Stockholm, and I don't think it's lower than Gothenburg either.
The solution that will be implemented eventually here is that it will be obligatory for all drivers on Norwegian roads, Norwegian or not, to have a chip in the windshield (the AutoPASS). The owner of the chip must also have guaranteed credit on this chip. I'm predicting this system will spread to elsewhere in Europe with time, the EU has already adopted technology similar to the AutoPASS for EETS.
When it comes to Norway I wouldn't be surprised if the next step was to install a chip in every citizen... that would be even more effective

On a more serious note, I agree this is a political "fairness" question. I doubt the revenue created by private foreign vehicles would even cover the administrative costs for billing them. I passed a toll gate in the middle of nowhere on E18 in Norway this summer, four months later a bill comes in the mail for 18 NOK or something similar, on a standard bill with a standard Swedish account where I could pay. Just imagine the administrative costs involved...

Still, the reason Sweden can't do it is because here it's a tax, not a toll.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 10:58 PM   #1522
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Originally Posted by IceCheese View Post
The solution that will be implemented eventually here is that it will be obligatory for all drivers on Norwegian roads, Norwegian or not, to have a chip in the windshield (the AutoPASS).
I know the road administration are pushing for it, but everyone else is opposed to it, so I doubt it will happen anytime soon. This is just too much big brother.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 11:57 PM   #1523
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From what I have read/heard here in the papers/radio locally in Gothenburg, then:
All foreign vehicles that travels within the congestion tax zone will also be billed starting January 1:st 2014, that includes both Stockholm and Gothenburg.
Also the Gothenburg congestion tax is actually a road toll, but they can't call it that since the roads are already paid for, so legally they have to call it a tax instead. It's not there to reduce congestion, but more as a way to finance infrastructure projects in the city.

But I do have to say that it's a joy to drive in the city now, there is no real traffic any more. Fortunately I don't have to go inside the zone when I go there, so I don't have to pay anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I don't understand why they included E6 in the congestion charge zone. It's not like you can avoid congestion by taking an alternate route. There aren't any.
Well, it's possible to go around the city without paying, but it's 25 km longer if you are going along E6 (from Malmö to Oslo). It will be a bit shorter when they finish Bårhultsmotet (near Landvetter).
E6 to Kallebäck, RV40 to Landvetter, V549 to Partille, E20 to Partihalllänken, E45 to Kungälv and then continue on E6.
Meaning that it would be faster and cheaper to pay the tax, compared to fuel, etc.
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Old January 12th, 2013, 06:07 AM   #1524
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Originally Posted by loefet View Post
From what I have read/heard here in the papers/radio locally in Gothenburg, then:
All foreign vehicles that travels within the congestion tax zone will also be billed starting January 1:st 2014, that includes both Stockholm and Gothenburg.
Where are they going to send the bill to? A lot of countries still don't give out details of vehicle owners to other countries, and if they do, other countries don't even bother as it's not cost effective. Austria is still very upset with France, because French authorities don't want to give out details of French vehicle owners who speed through Austria. And London Transport did try at some point to use foreign depth collecting agencies to get their congestion charge out of foreign vehicles, but they've given up. Former mayor Ken Livingston wanted to take the USA to court due to their diplomatic vehicles flouting congestion charge and parking fees.
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Old January 12th, 2013, 09:17 AM   #1525
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Originally Posted by Road_UK

Where are they going to send the bill to? A lot of countries still don't give out details of vehicle owners to other countries, and if they do, other countries don't even bother as it's not cost effective. Austria is still very upset with France, because French authorities don't want to give out details of French vehicle owners who speed through Austria. And London Transport did try at some point to use foreign depth collecting agencies to get their congestion charge out of foreign vehicles, but they've given up. Former mayor Ken Livingston wanted to take the USA to court due to their diplomatic vehicles flouting congestion charge and parking fees.
There should be an EU convention that forces countries to give detail of foreign violators. With open borders is necessary that different police forces cooperate. It's not fair that foreigners can drive dangerously without risking nothing.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 12th, 2013, 11:29 AM   #1526
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Originally Posted by IceCheese View Post
Norwegian or not, to have a chip in the windshield (the AutoPASS). The owner of the chip must also have guaranteed credit on this chip. I'm predicting this system will spread to elsewhere in Europe with time, the EU has already adopted technology similar to the AutoPASS for EETS.
Slight correction: Foreign visitors must register their vehicle and time of visit online with a credit card. The first time the car passes a toll road, the credit card is charged with 400 NOK which is then used as credit for any further tolls.

After the visit is over it takes a few weeks or up to a month for all tolls to be registered. The leftover funds are transferred back 80 days after the visit.

Now, what I don't understand is why it all has to take so long? Are these toll "gates" manual, meaning: do they have to be "emptied" manually? Why else does it take so long if license plate is registered online and the system recognizes the license plate?

In my case it took the system between 2 and 3 weeks for 5 toll roads near Trondheim.
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Old January 12th, 2013, 11:38 AM   #1527
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And what if you don't have a credit card?
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Old January 12th, 2013, 12:03 PM   #1528
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And what if you don't have a credit card?
Registering a credit card is not mandatory. If you don't register you will recieve a bill in the mail from Euro Parking Collection.

http://www.epcplc.com/

You can also pay the toll at certain service stations.

Here's the official info on how it works in Oslo:

http://www.fjellinjen.no/en/payment-...es/how-to-pay/
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Old January 12th, 2013, 01:55 PM   #1529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loefet View Post
Also the Gothenburg congestion tax is actually a road toll, but they can't call it that since the roads are already paid for, so legally they have to call it a tax instead. It's not there to reduce congestion, but more as a way to finance infrastructure projects in the city.
Don't you just love how the "Congestion tax" is not really a tax and really has nothing to do with congestion...


Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
There should be an EU convention that forces countries to give detail of foreign violators. With open borders is necessary that different police forces cooperate. It's not fair that foreigners can drive dangerously without risking nothing.
I imagine that's exactly what is going to happen, at least when it comes to tolls. There's an EU-directive called something like electronic road toll systems. The Swedish government inquiry on how to bill foreign vehicles for congestion tax has been postponed in order to be aligned with European Electronic Toll Service (EETS). Still, I doubt it will all be done before January 1st next year.
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Old January 12th, 2013, 02:23 PM   #1530
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EETS has been postponed in the past and I won't be surprised if it gets delayed further. You can't implement such a system in a matter of 1 or 2 years.
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Old January 14th, 2013, 07:27 AM   #1531
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Former mayor Ken Livingston wanted to take the USA to court due to their diplomatic vehicles flouting congestion charge and parking fees.
Haha I remember TFL (transport for london) and Ken Livingston wanted Obama and his American entourage to pay for the congestion when they were visiting to Buckingham Palace a few months ago.

Anyways:
Would rental cars be included in this as well? If so, how would they implement this?

I assume that AVIS will take care of all that then just charge me the additional fees when I return the vehicle for instance.
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Old January 14th, 2013, 10:42 AM   #1532
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The rental companies require you leave your credit card number, so that they can charge it. My entry into the Stockholm central zone last month nicely appeared on my final bill from Hertz.

While going after the congestion charge incurred by a car with Obama on his way to Buckingham Palace sounds a bit proposterous, diplomatic cars are a bit of an issue in the sense that many diplomats (or family members of diplomats) violate a lot of rules in traffic without the police having any real tools to go after those diplomats. The system of diplomat immunity implies that the home country of the diplomat needs to take disciplinary action against the diplomat, but that won't happen for a simple parking ticket. Many diplomats will happily comply, but diplomats from some countries (and unfortunately the US has a fairly bad reputation in that area) will simply park their car anywhere without paying, because they know that nobody is going to go after them anyway.
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Old January 14th, 2013, 06:17 PM   #1533
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Diplomats ignoring parking regulations is something you see in every capital all over the world, I would guess. IIRC foreign diplomats in Sweden owe the the City of Stockholm something like € 50 000. The worst offenders are Russian and Chinese diplomats, with the Russians alone responsible for about 20% of all "diplomatic parking violations". (http://www.thelocal.se/42678/20120817/#.UPQvEoe9KK0)

One solution could be to start using wheel clamps. Currently I don't think there's legislation in place that allows cities to use them, though.
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Old January 14th, 2013, 08:14 PM   #1534
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Diplomats ignoring parking regulations is something you see in every capital all over the world, I would guess. IIRC foreign diplomats in Sweden owe the the City of Stockholm something like € 50 000. The worst offenders are Russian and Chinese diplomats, with the Russians alone responsible for about 20% of all "diplomatic parking violations". (http://www.thelocal.se/42678/20120817/#.UPQvEoe9KK0)

One solution could be to start using wheel clamps. Currently I don't think there's legislation in place that allows cities to use them, though.
Finding a parking spot in central Stockholm is difficult and if you find one there's a hefty price for parking. Add to that the toll fees

This how it should be - complicated to drive so we reduce traffic in the inner city. Also it's good for the taxi industry.

Many firms use taxicabs to get around instead of company cars.

But..I hope the authorities don't introduce tolls in medium sized cities like Uppsala, Norrköping, Linköping and so on because there is not sufficient public transport to compensate traffic.
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Old January 15th, 2013, 09:27 AM   #1535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wover View Post
Slight correction: Foreign visitors must register their vehicle and time of visit online with a credit card. The first time the car passes a toll road, the credit card is charged with 400 NOK which is then used as credit for any further tolls.

After the visit is over it takes a few weeks or up to a month for all tolls to be registered. The leftover funds are transferred back 80 days after the visit.

Now, what I don't understand is why it all has to take so long? Are these toll "gates" manual, meaning: do they have to be "emptied" manually? Why else does it take so long if license plate is registered online and the system recognizes the license plate?

In my case it took the system between 2 and 3 weeks for 5 toll roads near Trondheim.
The short answer to this, is that there are different operators all over the country.
In addition, they are per say "emptied manually", because everytime the cameras can't be 100 percent sure about a license plate, employees of the operators have to manually identify it.
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Old January 15th, 2013, 10:10 AM   #1536
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Originally Posted by IceCheese View Post
The short answer to this, is that there are different operators all over the country.
In addition, they are per say "emptied manually", because everytime the cameras can't be 100 percent sure about a license plate, employees of the operators have to manually identify it.
Still waiting for my invoice from passing the Bergen Toll Ring in the summer 2008...

When the automatic toll ring was established in Bergen, certain issues arose: The system was not fully succesfull in distinguishing the Polish new license plates from Norwegian ones. If somebody from Poland entered Bergen, someone in Norway got the invoice.

It as only a few years ago when the toll collecting operators received heavy criticism because of their inefficiency. The company responsible for the Nordkapp tunnel used 50% of the collected money to run their own operations. I guess the invoicing the foreign vehicles is really counter-productive: The cost of the process must be much higher than the amount of money collected.
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Old January 15th, 2013, 10:57 AM   #1537
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But..I hope the authorities don't introduce tolls in medium sized cities like Uppsala, Norrköping, Linköping and so on because there is not sufficient public transport to compensate traffic.
Also, there's no need for it. Medium-sized cities simply don't have this much traffic and congestion isn't really a problem here.
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Old January 15th, 2013, 12:16 PM   #1538
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When the automatic toll ring was established in Bergen, certain issues arose: The system was not fully succesfull in distinguishing the Polish new license plates from Norwegian ones. If somebody from Poland entered Bergen, someone in Norway got the invoice.
That issue also concerns the Stockholm Road tolls. Quite a few cars from LV & LT enter via the ferry from the Baltics and their licenseplates are almost identical to the swedish ones.

From wikipedia:

The Stockholm congestion tax system uses automatic number plate recognition to identify plates, and this system can not distinguish between Swedish and Lithuanian plates. Non-Swedish cars do not have to pay this tax, but a Swedish owner will be charged if there is one with same number, which is likely. The false tax will be cancelled after a manual check if the owner complains. Swedish taxes must be paid on time anyway and will be refunded if there is an error.
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Old January 15th, 2013, 12:59 PM   #1539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd

That issue also concerns the Stockholm Road tolls. Quite a few cars from LV & LT enter via the ferry from the Baltics and their licenseplates are almost identical to the swedish ones.

From wikipedia:

The Stockholm congestion tax system uses automatic number plate recognition to identify plates, and this system can not distinguish between Swedish and Lithuanian plates. Non-Swedish cars do not have to pay this tax, but a Swedish owner will be charged if there is one with same number, which is likely. The false tax will be cancelled after a manual check if the owner complains. Swedish taxes must be paid on time anyway and will be refunded if there is an error.
Also Malteses and Hungarians probably.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 15th, 2013, 01:06 PM   #1540
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Visualization for the future motorway on Riksväg 40 Dållebo - Hester which will open autumn 2015. It will include a 400m tunnel which I guess will become the longest rural motorway tunnel in Sweden.


Väg 40 Dållebo-Hester ska byggas ut till motorväg | Trafikverket by Trafikverket
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