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Old October 4th, 2007, 11:17 PM   #21
dubai3000
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guys look at this, They opened a huge mall beside the mosque

http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?i...1060051ls1.jpg

do they really need to build this, by destroying ancient heritage ???
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Old October 4th, 2007, 11:57 PM   #22
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that building maybe tall but it is tacky.
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Old October 5th, 2007, 12:17 AM   #23
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^ how so?
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Old October 5th, 2007, 04:28 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by walli View Post
Interestingly, this is not easy for many Muslims either. The reason is, that as Wahabis discount all other interpretations of Islam, they make it extremely difficult for others to come in. The various Shi'a groups have a terrible time. The people have to show a proof of being Muslim statement from their Mosque / Masjid, however, statements from the prayer houses of certain interpretations are not counted as valid by the Wahabis. This may seem like a tangential item, but it relates directly to the destruction of heritage. The Wahabis do not want to listen to other people's views, and in fact, are bent on destroying heritage relating to the history of other groups and diversity in general. The irony is that Wahabism is a relatively new phenomenon - perhaps only 150 years old or so, but instead is often presented as the original way. That is a bunch of crud! They are only a modern era phenomenon.

Just as an example, the Prophet's wife Khadija ran her own caravan business, and in fact, the prophet worked for her. That is how they met, and he ended up marrying her (she was also slightly elder to him). Currently lineage from the Prophet is only from Khadija, and this family is revered by most Muslims. Problem is, the Wahabis don't respect that because it gives other interpretations a level of credibility that they themselves don't have. As a result, they bulldozed Khadija's home and build public lavatories there. Now you can see from their choice, not only to bulldoze, but also what they did with the space, that there is more to what happens than just 'we need that land for the pilgrims'.

Saudi Arabia is full of land - they can build anywhere.
This is interesting and I didn't know this before reading these articles. I always thought it was just a case of negligence , like for example when loads of Georgian buildings were torn down in Dublin in the 60s.
For the supporters of the Abraj al Bait. Some of you say these large towers are needed to accomodate all the pilgrims which is true, a lot of space does need to be created. But why don't they build a good metro system and expand the city horizontally and build highrises further out?

BTW let's keep this discussion civilised, it's an interesting topic
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Old October 5th, 2007, 05:39 AM   #25
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Thats picture is few years old. i think its already destroyed
Yeah I know. I was stating that it was already demolished.
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Old October 5th, 2007, 07:19 AM   #26
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Thats picture is few years old. i think its already destroyed
That's sad.
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Old October 5th, 2007, 02:00 PM   #27
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The problem is really its location
I hope one day they will destroy it and built the same some km away
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Old October 5th, 2007, 02:18 PM   #28
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http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3158/dokaaeua3.jpg

showed this pic to my girlfriend
"this is a ugly tower. Which city is it?"
"oh, now i see the mosque"

this tower will be Mecca's new landmark
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Old October 5th, 2007, 02:28 PM   #29
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I wouldn't count on it, but since anyone can be Muslim, I think all you have to do to get in is incredibly blend in. I wouldn't come in with tourist gear though.
People I know who've been on Hajj or Umra had to get a letter from their mosque confirming that they were muslims, so if I wanted to visit I would have to convert to Islam for a few weeks beforehand and then convert back to heathen afterwards I guess.
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Old October 6th, 2007, 05:17 AM   #30
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bad. but atleast they can get rid of the dumb clock.
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Old October 6th, 2007, 05:17 AM   #31
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bad. but atleast they can get rid of the dumb clock.
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Old October 6th, 2007, 06:21 PM   #32
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People I know who've been on Hajj or Umra had to get a letter from their mosque confirming that they were muslims, so if I wanted to visit I would have to convert to Islam for a few weeks beforehand and then convert back to heathen afterwards I guess.
I find it interesting that apparently in 1979, when Islamic militants seized the Mosque, the Saudi government called in special forces from France, who had to be instantly converted to Islam before entering Mecca, to defeat the dissidents, due to the poor results achieved by the Saudi army.

Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Mosque_Seizure
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Old October 6th, 2007, 10:32 PM   #33
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I dont know about the "instant" conversion.

I know the Pakistanis wouldnt have had any problem though.
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Old October 6th, 2007, 11:09 PM   #34
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It's a shame if you have to "convert" just to visit a place..! Is the clock even on GMT (greenwich meridian time) or some other time and dimension..?
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Old October 6th, 2007, 11:16 PM   #35
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Yes, it's on GMT+3.
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Old October 6th, 2007, 11:33 PM   #36
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I dont know about the "instant" conversion.

I know the Pakistanis wouldnt have had any problem though.
I had previously read it in a book. Anyways, I doubt that all members of those French commando units were muslims (maybe only a few), and I doubt they had enough time to learn enough about Islam to make a meaningful decision on conversion. I wonder if they converted right back after they left.

Back to topic: the discussion on building around the holy mosque in Mecca was the subject of threads before this one, and if I remember correctly some muslim forumers made the point that accommodating pilgrims was much more important than preserving non-religious historical sites of the city. The dilemma I have is this: the Masjid al-Haram has been expanded several times to accommodate ever larger numbers of pilgrims, now that huge brand new buildings are being constructed right around it, it will be much harder to expand it until those building owners have at least recouped their investments. It will be more expensive to demolish them compared to the older structures that were originally around it and expropriation would be more expensive (and encounter more opposition from powerful owners) for the government.
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Old October 7th, 2007, 01:28 AM   #37
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It's a shame if you have to "convert" just to visit a place..! Is the clock even on GMT (greenwich meridian time) or some other time and dimension..?
Actually thats funny you mention it. Most Muslim nations also have Madinah Time.
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Old October 7th, 2007, 06:12 PM   #38
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i aint muslim, but the mere thought of building a monstrosity right next to Islam's holiest site, which would soon cast horrid shadows over the great courtyard containing the Kaaba is just SO SICK...

who knows, god forbid, they might airlift the Kaaba right into the summit of that skyscraper
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Old October 8th, 2007, 11:40 AM   #39
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Really sad development. Especially the shopping mall. Seriously what are they thinking? Transforming a holy site into a temple of commerce?

Jesus threw all the merchants out of the temple. What would Mohamed do?
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Old October 8th, 2007, 12:08 PM   #40
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oops posted in the wrong thread sorry mod please delet this :p

Last edited by kix111; October 8th, 2007 at 12:22 PM.
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