daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Architecture > Classic Architecture

Classic Architecture Discussions on heritage buildings, monuments and landmarks.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old October 24th, 2007, 07:19 PM   #81
Narcisse
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sampa!
Posts: 23
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by qatar son 333 View Post
please not trying to fight but i am a muslim and have studyed this before he muhammed (peace be upon him صلى الله عليه وسلم) kicked the jews out and they moved to the largest jew populated are whish is now israel ! so he didtnt really kill anybody !
I don't want to stay too off topic like previous poster say but to be clear I think this poster who tries to refer of the conflict is referring to the massacre of the Banu Qurayza jews who had surrender after the battle of the Trench (battle of Al-Khandaq) and yet all these surrendered and armless Jewish men were still beheaded and all the women and children were enslaved. Here is a wiki summary for english reader

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza

or if you really want detail and can read Arabic you can read Ibn Ishaq's Sirat-a-Rasul that describes this battle with the last of the large Jewish tribes of Medina, the Banu Qurayza and after a 25 days siege, they (Jews) surrender unconditionally and then Prophet Muhammad left this matter to Sa’d bin Mu’adh was the leader of a large Medinan tribe, the Aws and then Sa'd decided to kill them all and Prophet Muhammed accrding to Ibn Ishaq in Tabari said “You have given the judgement of Allah above the seven heavens,” and so in the end, all 600-700 males of the tribe were killed.
Narcisse no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 24th, 2007, 10:55 PM   #82
antishock8
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 38
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by walli View Post
No - people following particular religious may have different cultural backgrounds and races. I'm perplexed at why this is troubling for you to understand.

Before the Hebrew Bible was revealed, there were people in those lands with a particular race. Not all of them became Jewish - so even from the debatable standpoint that it was 'only revealed to the people of that land' one cannot say a particular race is synonymous with Judaism. Your comments also make me consider how orthodox Jews consider the African Jews, which number in the many thousands.

We may have to agree to not agree on this one. I honestly don't have any bad intent with my comments, and I hope you understand that. Your 'quick to the trigger' comment suggesting my words were troubling, are actually troubling in and of themselves!

Let's move past this part - I have a ton of Jewish friends, and we all enjoy open, frank and truth based debate - but there is a time and place. We leave the 'hate card' aspects to the politicians and lawyers.
It is clear that human populations are not unambiguous, clearly demarcated, biologically distinct groups. However, it is widely accepted that the Jewish people are a race. Again, if you're culturally distinct, possess genetic markers that typify your group, and you possess a clear ethnicity then it's safe to assume you're a member of a race of human beings. If you don't accept the idea Jews are a race you might as well dismiss race as a concept that is compatible with human nature.

I think it's great that you're open-minded about having a ton of Jewish friends; it's a shame that the people who control Mecca and Medina do not. Regardless, I'm done sidetracking this thread. I just wanted to express my disaffection with the idea that in this day and age bigotry is allowed to be practiced so openly and with no opposition. I think it reflects very poorly on Saudi Arabia and Islam... Although I'm sure neither one cares what this kaffur thinks.
antishock8 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2007, 06:21 AM   #83
goschio
proud Kuffar
 
goschio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ujerumani
Posts: 6,048
Likes (Received): 4202

culture has nothing to do with race.
__________________
Isaiah 28:2
Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.

Matthew 7:25
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
goschio no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2007, 07:18 AM   #84
walli
BANNED
 
walli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 753
Likes (Received): 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by antishock8 View Post
It is clear that human populations are not unambiguous, clearly demarcated, biologically distinct groups. However, it is widely accepted that the Jewish people are a race.
No it is not. You should get out more often
walli no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2007, 07:21 AM   #85
walli
BANNED
 
walli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 753
Likes (Received): 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelebes View Post
The project flagrantly discriminates against the poor and unwashed, but it would appear that the religion (or the head religious leaders) as a whole doesn't have a problem with discriminating amongst its own people and others.
That is not fair, Xelebes. I've spent a lot of time explaining how the Saudis are not the voice-box of the Muslim world, and furthermore that the Muslim world is extremely diverse. Numerous Muslim groups, be they cultural, tradition based or otherwise, have expressed their objection to projects such as these in Saudi Arabia, however the Saudis have simply termed it a matter internal to their political boundaries. It is a real shame.
walli no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2007, 04:10 PM   #86
antishock8
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 38
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by walli View Post
No it is not. You should get out more often
Well, I'd love to get out and go to Mecca and Medina, but unless I'm willing to convert to your religion that won't be possible. At least we can both agree that's bigoted.
antishock8 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2007, 09:12 PM   #87
walli
BANNED
 
walli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 753
Likes (Received): 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by antishock8 View Post
Well, I'd love to get out and go to Mecca and Medina, but unless I'm willing to convert to your religion that won't be possible. At least we can both agree that's bigoted.
Who said that I'm allowed to go to Mecca? You keep grouping me with the Saudi's, and in doing so ignoring some of the most important elements of what I've been saying.

While there is no doubt there is some level of diversity in Judaism, the Islamic world is more akin to the Christian world in this regard. If I kept grouping every Christian I ever met with Joseph Kony or Robert Mugabe, I would be called uneducated.
walli no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2007, 09:33 PM   #88
Xusein
 
Xusein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 26,168
Likes (Received): 10195

Unless during Hajj, I don't even think non-Saudi Muslims can just visit Makkah or Madinah for tourism either.

It's not like I can just visit the cities for fun.

Well, unless for work reasons, I guess...but that's not tourism.
Xusein no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2007, 11:03 PM   #89
Subangite
Registered User
 
Subangite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: behind you
Posts: 1,096
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by antishock8 View Post
Well, I'd love to get out and go to Mecca and Medina, but unless I'm willing to convert to your religion that won't be possible. At least we can both agree that's bigoted.
You might not have to convert!!. In 1979 in Mecca, there was a siege at Masjid al Haram, a take over by an armed group. Saudi Authorities called in French Special Forces (none were Muslim) and Pakistani Special Forces for assistance, they killed a lot of people in the gun battle to take back the shrine. It's been well documented but I guess forgotten by many.

So you see, infidels and non believers (the french) can go in to Mecca, to go kill Muslims (the terrorists and hostages). So it is more than possible to go in without converting, if the you're given permission.

It all depends on the Saudi Government. They have ultimate say. As a Muslim, I agree with you 100%, I think it is bigotry like you said. There is nothing in the Quran that says we should stop non Muslims from entering cities.
__________________
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
~ Albert Einstein
Subangite no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2007, 06:27 AM   #90
Xelebes
Salad Days Are Here
 
Xelebes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Едмончук/Oil Capital of Canada
Posts: 3,626
Likes (Received): 746

Quote:
Originally Posted by walli View Post
That is not fair, Xelebes. I've spent a lot of time explaining how the Saudis are not the voice-box of the Muslim world, and furthermore that the Muslim world is extremely diverse. Numerous Muslim groups, be they cultural, tradition based or otherwise, have expressed their objection to projects such as these in Saudi Arabia, however the Saudis have simply termed it a matter internal to their political boundaries. It is a real shame.
Yeah, I guess. Of course, what I meant was that the Saudis flagrantly discriminate there is lesser discrimination within the whole group. That is, they appear to be at war with themselves.
__________________
Xelebes no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2007, 07:37 AM   #91
Czas na Żywiec
Globetrekker
 
Czas na Żywiec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Warsaw
Posts: 1,076
Likes (Received): 1047

Russians also had closed cities, but I think most of them have opened since 1991.
__________________
My Travels

AR AT BE BG BR CA CH CZ DE DK EE ES FI FR HR HU IE IT LT LU LV NL PL RO RS SE SI SK TR UA UK US UY
Czas na Żywiec no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2007, 12:38 AM   #92
svs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,500
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Czas na Żywiec View Post
Russians also had closed cities, but I think most of them have opened since 1991.
The Russian cities were closed for security reasons. The Islamic cities are closed to nonbelievers. There really is a difference although no one I know would defend the Russians either.
svs no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2007, 12:40 AM   #93
svs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,500
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subangite View Post
You might not have to convert!!. In 1979 in Mecca, there was a siege at Masjid al Haram, a take over by an armed group. Saudi Authorities called in French Special Forces (none were Muslim) and Pakistani Special Forces for assistance, they killed a lot of people in the gun battle to take back the shrine. It's been well documented but I guess forgotten by many.

So you see, infidels and non believers (the french) can go in to Mecca, to go kill Muslims (the terrorists and hostages). So it is more than possible to go in without converting, if the you're given permission.

It all depends on the Saudi Government. They have ultimate say. As a Muslim, I agree with you 100%, I think it is bigotry like you said. There is nothing in the Quran that says we should stop non Muslims from entering cities.
As I understand it, the french soldiers all had to convert before entering. They relapsed after the battle was over. The whole thing appears very hypocritical to me.
svs no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2007, 12:47 AM   #94
svs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,500
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcisse View Post
I don't want to stay too off topic like previous poster say but to be clear I think this poster who tries to refer of the conflict is referring to the massacre of the Banu Qurayza jews who had surrender after the battle of the Trench (battle of Al-Khandaq) and yet all these surrendered and armless Jewish men were still beheaded and all the women and children were enslaved. Here is a wiki summary for english reader

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza

or if you really want detail and can read Arabic you can read Ibn Ishaq's Sirat-a-Rasul that describes this battle with the last of the large Jewish tribes of Medina, the Banu Qurayza and after a 25 days siege, they (Jews) surrender unconditionally and then Prophet Muhammad left this matter to Sa’d bin Mu’adh was the leader of a large Medinan tribe, the Aws and then Sa'd decided to kill them all and Prophet Muhammed accrding to Ibn Ishaq in Tabari said “You have given the judgement of Allah above the seven heavens,” and so in the end, all 600-700 males of the tribe were killed.
This is correct.
svs no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2007, 01:27 AM   #95
FMR-STL
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 322
Likes (Received): 1

No disrespect intended... Does any "Bible" or "Quran" quote of skyscrapers or urban planning..? I would think you have the same beliefs whether you're on the sidewalks or in a penthouse..!
FMR-STL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2007, 10:01 PM   #96
walli
BANNED
 
walli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 753
Likes (Received): 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by FMR-STL View Post
No disrespect intended... Does any "Bible" or "Quran" quote of skyscrapers or urban planning..? I would think you have the same beliefs whether you're on the sidewalks or in a penthouse..!
Clearly not in those words, however, the Quran does speak of the need to use intellect such as to apply ethical premises.

In post #51, I also highlighted a recent program about planning and architecture in the Muslim world. There is a BBC video available at the link I had provided. I'll quote the pertinent section of post #51 below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by walli
Anyway, a recent BBC series called 'Building for Islam' was very informative and interesting along these lines. They talked about a large architecture award in the Muslim world, and it was fascinating to hear about and see the diversity of projects, as well as to learn of the thoughtfulness of the awards process. I highly encourage those interested in this subject matter to watch part one of the four part series at:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2z...rchit_creation
BTW - Lord Norman Foster has also won one of these awards, though it took ten award cycles for him to break through.

Last edited by walli; October 27th, 2007 at 10:05 PM. Reason: corrected link in quote
walli no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2007, 03:38 AM   #97
FMR-STL
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 322
Likes (Received): 1

The architecture is dependent on the culture and financing ($) of the local government... Is Mecca "perfect" as is or can it grow, stand still or degrade as generations come and go..? The Building looks impressive compared to it's surroundings..!
FMR-STL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2007, 08:10 AM   #98
worldwide
Registered User
 
worldwide's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: vancouver
Posts: 855
Likes (Received): 3

it looks retarded.
__________________
SEND IT BACK MAN! THAT MUST BE LIKE STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY BUMPS.
COME ON GUYS!!! WE NEED TO OBJECTIFY MORE WOMEN!!!
worldwide no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2007, 08:28 AM   #99
walli
BANNED
 
walli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 753
Likes (Received): 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by worldwide View Post
it looks retarded.
Yes - I absolutely agree. It just doesn't fit the context ... and on many levels.
walli no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2007, 11:38 AM   #100
allurban
All Urban
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 4,348
Likes (Received): 6

the money spent on this project could probably have provided clean drinking water, proper medical care, and proper schooling to millions of poor people....

m
allurban no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu