BUDAPEST | Public Transport

[Nyuszi]

Originally Posted by Qtya

No words... Today, the southern TBM has reached Baross square...

Very good news! Long waited moment!

BTW: Probably you should write Keleti instead of Baross square. I know it's the same, but for the non-Hungarians it could be missleading.

[zsimi80]

Petegabi's video:

[Qtya]

Office & Control Tower (depot in the background)

[Qtya]

Originally Posted by RawLee

(Kelenföld -> Tétényi -> Bocskai -> Móricz -> Gellért -> Fővám -> Kálvin -> Rákóczi -> Népszínház -> Keleti)

Northern (2nd) TBM also reached Keleti today! First phase tunnel boring is finished!

[(fabrizio)]

Good news! So how long before the tube can be opened? a couple of years? I'm really looking forward to try Fővám tér station.

[Qtya]

Originally Posted by (fabrizio)

Good news! So how long before the tube can be opened? a couple of years? I'm really looking forward to try Fővám tér station.

2,5 years from now... Hopefully earlier...

[(fabrizio)]

Well, that seems like a sensible amount of time - at least judging on the examples I have everyday under my eyes, Turin's Metro. I know Budapest's Metro 4 is quite behind schedule, but it'll be a damn good line. And a beautiful one as well, I'm really envious!

[Qtya]

Budapest Line 4 celebrations

The drinks were on Contractor Strabag last Friday following the final breakthrough of the second 6m diameter Herrenknecht EPBM on Budapest’s US$1.6bn Metro Line 4 Phase 1 project. The event, which followed hot on the heels of the first EPBM breakthrough in late June, marks the completion of TBM operations on the 7.4km of twin tube tunnels.

Strabag is part of the Bamco JV, which has been undertaking the US$260M design and build contract, including the construction of one of the 10 stations along the line (Gellert Station), since February 2006. Although marred by contractual disputes that effectively saw JV partner Vinci ‘leave’ the project last year, delays over land acquisition, and tough ground conditions, the atmosphere at the breakthrough party was jubilant, helped in no small way by the generous free bar and food, and an excellent local band pumping out a vast back catalogue of party tunes (very loudly).

Strabag’s Line 4 Project Manager, Christian Genschel, addressed the crowd saying; “I only came to this project in May last year. At first I was skeptical because of the project’s reputation in the press, but soon I realized I enjoyed working with all of you, although not necessarily everybody in the same way every day!”

The JV will now remove the TBMs from Keleti Station, finish construction of Gellert Station, and complete the four remaining cross passages and concreting works on the project’s NATM crossover structure.

The EPBMs started boring in April 2007, erecting the segmental lining from Kelenföldi Station on the Buda west side of the River Danube, driving through clay up to Fövám Station on the east side of the Danube where the ground changed to mixed sand, gravel and clays. Boring progressed well throughout, with the exception of initial problems with partial collapses at the second station, Tétényi út.

Phase 1, which was conceptually designed by Mott MacDonald, and local companies Fomterv and Uvaterv, is due to open next year.

http://tunnellingjournal.com/news/bu...-celebrations/

[RawLee]

NEWS!!!

The contract with Alstom about the 22 trainsets of 5 cars for line 2 and 15 trainsets of 4 cars for line 4 has been cancelled. A new tender will be issued. This can delay the metro 4 project by a year, and the old soviet trainsets on line 2 will have to be reconstructed.

Alstom has failed to deliver the new trains on time and is behind schedule by a year for line 2, and failed to get the type-approval from the authorities in several years, while the quality of the trains are questionable.

[Eurotram]

Originally Posted by RawLee

NEWS!!!

The contract with Alstom about the 22 trainsets of 5 cars for line 2 and 15 trainsets of 4 cars for line 4 has been cancelled. A new tender will be issued. This can delay the metro 4 project by a year, and the old soviet trainsets on line 2 will have to be reconstructed.

Alstom has failed to deliver the new trains on time and is behind schedule by a year for line 2, and failed to get the type-approval from the authorities in several years, while the quality of the trains are questionable.

It's a little bit surprising for Alstom (it would be almost normal if it was for example Ansaldobreda,but Alstom???).So you're writing,that they are now about 1 year after deadline;what does it mean?That Alstom hasn't delivered even ONE trainset till now?Unbelievable...
And what the last phrase of your post means?Haven't they proposed Metropolis trains?If yes then... I can't understand it

[dwdwone]

How much of the new line is above ground?

[RawLee]

Originally Posted by Eurotram

It's a little bit surprising for Alstom (it would be almost normal if it was for example Ansaldobreda,but Alstom???).So you're writing,that they are now about 1 year after deadline;what does it mean?That Alstom hasn't delivered even ONE trainset till now?Unbelievable...
And what the last phrase of your post means?Haven't they proposed Metropolis trains?If yes then... I can't understand it

It means that the new trains on line 2 should have been running for a year now.

There are problems with the computer systems, the brakes, the emergency exits; the authorities didint approve(=wont allow it running) the type (the Metropolis) because of these.

Originally Posted by dwdwone

How much of the new line is above ground?

0%. Ok,the depot is.

[historyworks]

Originally Posted by RawLee

It means that the new trains on line 2 should have been running for a year now.

There are problems with the computer systems, the brakes, the emergency exits; the authorities didint approve(=wont allow it running) the type (the Metropolis) because of these.

0%. Ok,the depot is.

Wow, you do have a problem! How is it that a manufacturer with such a reputation could perform so badly?

[RawLee]

Thats quite unclear.

They want penalyt to be paid to them because the depot of line 4 isnt ready, so we dont have space where they could put the new trains - which they havent even started producing yet.

[Attus]

Deadline for type approval was 30 May 2008, a little bit more than 2 years ago and this approvel has not been applied yet.

As for M4 it is critical because that line is co-financed by EU and the deadline for EU financing is end of 2015 so that the full line (including the new trains of course) must be in order till that.

[(fabrizio)]

Originally Posted by RawLee

NEWS!!!

The contract with Alstom about the 22 trainsets of 5 cars for line 2 and 15 trainsets of 4 cars for line 4 has been cancelled. A new tender will be issued. This can delay the metro 4 project by a year, and the old soviet trainsets on line 2 will have to be reconstructed.

Alstom has failed to deliver the new trains on time and is behind schedule by a year for line 2, and failed to get the type-approval from the authorities in several years, while the quality of the trains are questionable.

Alstom's got a good reputation, but lately some of its products are, hm, not as good as they used to be. Turin's Cityway trams ar, unreliable as the ol' Fiat Uno Turbo was, and almost as unsafe. I'm surprised, though, by this result. I guess that, now, BKV has to buy a new train off-the-shelf, that means asking the Spaniards with their CAFs, the Germans or...well, anyone else. I'm seriously surprised by Alstom, were their train a new model? Even AnsaldoBreda managed to deliver its trainsets to Milan with a smaller delay.

[Attus]

Originally Posted by (fabrizio)

I'm seriously surprised by Alstom, were their train a new model? Even AnsaldoBreda managed to deliver its trainsets to Milan with a smaller delay.

I am not surprised. It is not a new model at all, Alstom Metropolis, almost the very same as in some cities in Europe is in service.
The main source of the issue is that Budapest has pre-paid a large part of the price and in the contract between Budapest and Alstom is written that this money need not to be paid back any way and additionally that Alstom can have a huge delay, the price will be unchanged.
So Alstom has simply nothing to hurry for.

[Attus]

Additional information: following the contract between Alstom and Budapest, a vis maior is an earthquake, flood, disease, and even if the vehicle type can not get the approval of the Hungarian authorities. Do you understand? If Alstom can not or does not want to provide a vehicle which can be approved by the authorities, it is NOT the producer's responsibility, according to the contract.
Additionally (unbelievable, really...) if a vis maior situation exists for at least 6 months, Alstom can cancel the contract without paying back the pre-paid part of the price so that they can gain a lot of money for NOTHING. And the disapproval of the vehicle is a vis maior. Do you understand? Even if Alstom would deliver a tram with horses, they get the money (actually they have got it already).

So the situation is not that Alstom has a delay in delivery. I think Alstom has not produced any single car except for the prototype. The main issue is that the vehicle has no type approval from the Hungarian authorities. The most important reasons are the breaks and emergency exits. The delivered and tested train has serious break problems and emergency exits can not always be opened.

Actually this contract was not cancelled an will probably not be cancelled for several weeks. Background? Politics and perhaps corruption. In October we will have local elections in Budapest.

The whole problem can be crucial because if the metro line M4 will not be in use latestly Dec 31 2015, the EU subsidy must be paid back which would make the metro about 3x more expensive for Hungary and Budapest since we have a huge EU co-financing. It is now August 2010. A new tender, new winner, new vehicles, new prototype, new tests, and the producing: it can hardly be organized within 5 years. And even if everything works, we'll have a completed subway out of order for two years since we won't have any rolling stock.

[(fabrizio)]

Originally Posted by Attus

I am not surprised. It is not a new model at all, Alstom Metropolis, almost the very same as in some cities in Europe is in service.
The main source of the issue is that Budapest has pre-paid a large part of the price and in the contract between Budapest and Alstom is written that this money need not to be paid back any way and additionally that Alstom can have a huge delay, the price will be unchanged.
So Alstom has simply nothing to hurry for.

Originally Posted by Attus

Additional information: following the contract between Alstom and Budapest, a vis maior is an earthquake, flood, disease, and even if the vehicle type can not get the approval of the Hungarian authorities. Do you understand? If Alstom can not or does not want to provide a vehicle which can be approved by the authorities, it is NOT the producer's responsibility, according to the contract.
Additionally (unbelievable, really...) if a vis maior situation exists for at least 6 months, Alstom can cancel the contract without paying back the pre-paid part of the price so that they can gain a lot of money for NOTHING. And the disapproval of the vehicle is a vis maior. Do you understand? Even if Alstom would deliver a tram with horses, they get the money (actually they have got it already).

So the situation is not that Alstom has a delay in delivery. I think Alstom has not produced any single car except for the prototype. The main issue is that the vehicle has no type approval from the Hungarian authorities. The most important reasons are the breaks and emergency exits. The delivered and tested train has serious break problems and emergency exits can not always be opened.

Actually this contract was not cancelled an will probably not be cancelled for several weeks. Background? Politics and perhaps corruption. In October we will have local elections in Budapest.

The whole problem can be crucial because if the metro line M4 will not be in use latestly Dec 31 2015, the EU subsidy must be paid back which would make the metro about 3x more expensive for Hungary and Budapest since we have a huge EU co-financing. It is now August 2010. A new tender, new winner, new vehicles, new prototype, new tests, and the producing: it can hardly be organized within 5 years. And even if everything works, we'll have a completed subway out of order for two years since we won't have any rolling stock.

I'm sorry but...who's the twat who signed the deal? Hungarian taxpayers would have the right to demand his resignation, whoever he is.

[spag85]

Originally Posted by (fabrizio)

I'm sorry but...who's the twat who signed the deal? Hungarian taxpayers would have the right to demand his resignation, whoever he is.

Gábor Demszky, the mayor of Budapest and Botond Aba, then CEO of BKV. I agree with you and a criminal investigation has been underway for misappropriation.