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Old December 1st, 2014, 02:52 PM   #681
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Old December 1st, 2014, 04:23 PM   #682
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Video on Széll Kálmán tér station hub upgrade:



I have question - have you got better pics on M1's northern extension?
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Old December 1st, 2014, 05:04 PM   #683
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...
I have question - have you got better pics on M1's northern extension?
And what about M3 northern extension beyond Ujpest?
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Old December 6th, 2014, 10:17 PM   #684
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Old January 26th, 2015, 08:23 PM   #685
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After so many years, the tram network will be extended soon!

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Old January 27th, 2015, 06:36 AM   #686
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Old February 5th, 2015, 01:28 PM   #687
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First CAF tram(the shorter 34 metres variant) is completed for Budapest.







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Old February 5th, 2015, 03:30 PM   #688
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Seriously CAF only makes tram with this design? Well they must be cheaper then from other manufacturers, cause I guess that must be the only reason why CAF trams are being bought worldwide. Otherwiese the desing is awfull.
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Old February 5th, 2015, 04:42 PM   #689
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Seriously CAF only makes tram with this design? Well they must be cheaper then from other manufacturers, cause I guess that must be the only reason why CAF trams are being bought worldwide. Otherwiese the desing is awfull.
What is your problem with CAF? If Budapest wants a unique design for their trams, they can pay for it... Every manufacturer can do that! If they don't like, because it's cheaper to get spare parts after accidents, they can choose a common design... So, it's not CAF but the customer which choose the design. Please keep in mind and don't be angry about CAF!
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Old February 5th, 2015, 06:09 PM   #690
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What is your problem with CAF? If Budapest wants a unique design for their trams, they can pay for it... Every manufacturer can do that! If they don't like, because it's cheaper to get spare parts after accidents, they can choose a common design... So, it's not CAF but the customer which choose the design. Please keep in mind and don't be angry about CAF!
Well curiously from all tram manufacturers only CAF makes the same design trams almost. the other ones create almost all the time something new and differente
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Old February 5th, 2015, 09:54 PM   #691
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CAF does have some variants - e.g. Stockholm model with swivelling end bogies. Otherwise, like every other manufacturer it earns its bread and butter from these ubiquitous standard fixed-bogie, multi-articulated trams.

I'm surprised that Budapest ordered such a tram since it is an old system with (I believe) less than perfect track that doesn't favour such trams - and the trams wear the tracks also. Prague is getting rid of such trams. Maybe the line they will be used on in Budapest is pretty much a straight line with no corners?

We have these CAFs in Sydney and they are quite nicely built and quiet, but they have a poor ride and prone to yaw. The seating arrangement over the power bogies is terrible. Either you have to sacrifice seats to get facing seats (4 seats per bogie instead of 8) or they turn the seats sideways facing the aisle and people sitting in them block the aisle with their feet. I will be interested to see which alternative Budapest chose, especially since it is a narrower tram than Sydney's. The photos above show only non-power bogie seats in the centre of the tram. Sydney has worst of both - 2 facing seats on one side and feet blocking the aisle on the other! The Skodas in Miskolc are a much better example of this type of tram, including 8 facing seats over the power bogies.

I'm very surprised that an experienced operator like BKV got these, rather than having a tram designed to suit their system like in Prague. Even Bratislava has ordered trams with swivelling end bogies.
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Old February 5th, 2015, 10:34 PM   #692
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I'm surprised that Budapest ordered such a tram since it is an old system with (I believe) less than perfect track that doesn't favour such trams
That's why they've been refurbishing these lines during the last couple of months (we posted about it here a few times too )
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Old February 5th, 2015, 11:19 PM   #693
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That's why they've been refurbishing these lines during the last couple of months (we posted about it here a few times too )
Thank you! Now you remind me I have seen this information.

But that's the problem with these fixed-bogie trams - you have to have very strong, new track that then has to be always maintained in best condition so it is not bashed to pieces by these trams. Can Budapest afford this? Is there enough money forever to always maintain the track in top condition? This is an issue that will affect many new tramways in future years.

The Czech and Slovak approach seems more long-term pragmatic - design the tram so that there is not so much pressure on the infrastructure.

Out of interest, has anybody there been able to form an opinion comparing the performance of CAF trams in Debrecen with the Skodas in Miskolc? Also I presume the Debrecen trams have that issue with the bogie seats.
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Old February 6th, 2015, 01:09 PM   #694
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Thank you! Now you remind me I have seen this information.

But that's the problem with these fixed-bogie trams - you have to have very strong, new track that then has to be always maintained in best condition so it is not bashed to pieces by these trams. Can Budapest afford this? Is there enough money forever to always maintain the track in top condition? This is an issue that will affect many new tramways in future years.

The Czech and Slovak approach seems more long-term pragmatic - design the tram so that there is not so much pressure on the infrastructure.

Out of interest, has anybody there been able to form an opinion comparing the performance of CAF trams in Debrecen with the Skodas in Miskolc? Also I presume the Debrecen trams have that issue with the bogie seats.

What are you saying, Prague has a lot of problems with their swivelling bogie Skoda 15T trams, they are just awfull, you should inform yourself, Prague trams and all the Skoda product is no way a good example!
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Old February 6th, 2015, 01:58 PM   #695
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What are you saying, Prague has a lot of problems with their swivelling bogie Skoda 15T trams, they are just awfull, you should inform yourself, Prague trams and all the Skoda product is no way a good example!
What have you been listening to? Prague city politicians who blew the city budget trying to get out of a contract by libelling Skoda?

They are running very well. There were usual "childhood" issues with a completely new concept design (no other current manufacturer has had to deal with such a radically different design), these have been resolved by negotiation and extended warranty. They're the best trams in Europe as you know.
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Old February 6th, 2015, 02:02 PM   #696
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What have you been listening to? Prague city politicians who blew the city budget trying to get out of a contract by libelling Skoda?

They are running very well. There were usual "childhood" issues with a completely new concept design (no other current manufacturer has had to deal with such a radically different design), these have been resolved by negotiation and extended warranty. They're the best trams in Europe as you know.
Hahaha well I think the trams produced by Bombardier are the best!!!!
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Old February 6th, 2015, 02:14 PM   #697
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Hahaha well I think the trams produced by Bombardier are the best!!!!
Better not say that in Melbourne - there are a few little problems. The design is also not the best for big crowds (not enough doors, narrow aisle). Every manufacturer's product has its pluses and minuses. But trams with swivelling bogies are better than trams with fixed bogies.
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Old February 7th, 2015, 01:39 AM   #698
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AFAIK, Prague experienced extreme wear of rails in tight curves with classic suspend-sections tram, so they decided to go for Jacobs bogies tram, which limits choice of manufacter.
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Old February 7th, 2015, 08:09 PM   #699
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AFAIK, Prague experienced extreme wear of rails in tight curves with classic suspend-sections tram, so they decided to go for Jacobs bogies tram, which limits choice of manufacter.
The PESA Twist also features swiveling bogies. The Foxtrot model for Moscow is also based on the Twist design I believe.

Anyway, I had the chance to ride Prague's trams last summer and I can confirm the ride os smoother on the 15T than on the 14T or the Siemens ULF and Combino I rode in Vienna and Budapest respectively.

The 15T is a very refined product, greatly underestimated. The amount of unique features this tram has surely makes it a high end product, superior than the common Citadis or Flexity :
- Swiveling bogies, allowing tighter curves and cross curves at higher speed as well as reducing track wear;
- More axles than competitors of same length, reducing axle load and thus track wear;
- All axles can be motorised allowing climbing 8,5% gradients and quicker accelerations;
- Integral low floor without bumps for bogies allowing better seating arrangements;

However, the 15T maximum length is around 50 metres (5 modules), which is pretty long, but slightly shorter than the huge Combino or CAF trams ordered by Budapest.

I couldn't find a lot of technical information about the PESA Twist in english unfortunately. From the translation of the wiki page in polish, it seems the Twist is not entirely low floor and doesn't appear to be offered in versions longer than 42 m, but it comes with interesting options such as energy storage with supercapacitors.

Anyway, let's hope these manufacturers will spread trams with swiveling bogies if it allows lower track maintenance costs.

EDIT : Well, I just found out Bombardier's Flexity Classic has swiveling bogies at its ends... but it also has high floor over the swiveling bogies, however. Oh well, It seems "track friendly" modern trams are more common than what I thought.

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Old February 7th, 2015, 08:27 PM   #700
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Seriously CAF only makes tram with this design? Well they must be cheaper then from other manufacturers, cause I guess that must be the only reason why CAF trams are being bought worldwide. Otherwiese the desing is awfull.
We have these in Tallinn... also made by CAF
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