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Old November 5th, 2008, 11:44 PM   #11601
Ember-To-Ashes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Town Resident View Post
So let me see Ember, if it is not visible from the concrete level for the next three steel levels in the pic, then it should be visible from the opposite end of my pic on the outside

From this pic we can see the majority of the corrugated aluminium roof that supports the concrete flooring, if it was there we would certainly see the spire.

[IMG]http://i35.************/hu1rhc.jpg[/IMG]

If you look at the picture, there is a wall at the back of the first 3 levels and its where the "tier" is. it doesnt go in any futher. and certainly not into the middle where the spire would be.
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Old November 5th, 2008, 11:49 PM   #11602
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guys, the spire isnt friggen starting down on lower levels. it will start way up on tier20B!!!
theres no need for it to start down lower. the jacking equip is located tier21b. we have lots of photos that sshow this.
lets just talk about the rise of the pinnacle and more steel frame.
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Old November 6th, 2008, 02:04 AM   #11603
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Hi I 'm new here. I think that this tower is very nice.

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Old November 6th, 2008, 02:39 AM   #11604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CULWULLA View Post
guys, the spire isnt friggen starting down on lower levels. it will start way up on tier20B!!!
theres no need for it to start down lower. the jacking equip is located tier21b. we have lots of photos that sshow this.
lets just talk about the rise of the pinnacle and more steel frame.
if you recall the video that showed us how the spire was jacked up, it started on the lower levels! seeing as wat we see now is the top, this makes perfect sense. we dont "know" it starts where u say it does. it could have easily been hidden and the base could be lower down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH19J8ZF4Bk

Last edited by Ember-To-Ashes; November 6th, 2008 at 03:18 AM.
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Old November 6th, 2008, 03:06 AM   #11605
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Escuse the rather crap diagram i made but it shows what i mean:

[IMG]http://i35.************/inqt6e.jpg[/IMG]

And cul, think about what ur saying, it wont start on teir 20b. it will finish there once its been jacked upto that possition. meaning it will start from lower down.

Lets Just Look At The Maths;

spire length = 144m. at the moment we beleive we are seeing the pinacle of the spire which is currently at 730m. ok, now, top of concrete is 586m.

586m + 144m = 730m. which is the current height.

The spire will then be jacked up 90m. Make sense?
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Old November 6th, 2008, 03:37 AM   #11606
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I see your point with the drawing but there is something weird in your math.

If the spire is 144 m and if it will be jacked up 90 m that means the base of the spire will remain 54 m lower than the current highest point, deep inside the steel structure... Doesn't make sense to me.... Do you need 54 m of support to keep a 90 m piece erected?
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Old November 6th, 2008, 03:38 AM   #11607
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Price

According to dubaiarchitecture.com, Burj Dubai costs $800 million and a total of $20 billiion(US) for the surrounding development.
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Old November 6th, 2008, 03:47 AM   #11608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ht-freak View Post
According to dubaiarchitecture.com, Burj Dubai costs $800 million and a total of $20 billiion(US) for the surrounding development.
Yes everybody knows that figure was the initial cost. If you read previous posts, people argued that number was the cost for the naked structure and the real cost might very likely have gone up dramatically. If you think $800M is the total cost at least tell us why

Last edited by Mithat; November 6th, 2008 at 03:54 AM.
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Old November 6th, 2008, 04:13 AM   #11609
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My gut says Culwulla is correct. This is how I figure the two "competing" ways of assembling and raising the spire will (or could) go.... (Sorry, I can never remember the distinction between spire and pinnacle. "Spire" is easier to type.)

A) Top-down, multi-stage-jacking method:

Current base is at 20B. 1) Cables will be lowered from the lifting equipment and will be attached to near the base of spire. 2) Spire will be jacked till its base is at or near level 21B. 3) A new section will be attached to base, perhaps as multiple sub-sections. 4) The "new" base will now be near the floor of 20B and and the spire will be lowered until it's resting on that floor. This will allow the cables to be detached from the "old" base.

The four steps repeat until the whole thing has been assembled, at which time it will be lowered onto the floor and welded/bolted down. I imagine it will be welded/bolted at other locations too for stability.


Feel free to correct me if any of this is wrong. I'm just thinking through what seems most logical. I'm sure Fury or someone has posted better details of how this will/could proceed.

B) Bottom-up, single-stage-jacking method:

The spire was assembled along with each steel section, so that it is all there at this moment. The base is near the concrete level. The entire thing will be lifted all at once nearly 90m. The hole in level 20B will be closed and the spire lowered to rest on it, then bolt down, etc.

In some ways method A seems simpler -- no holes to patch in all the levels between concrete top and 20B, less overall weight lifted, shorter lifting cables, etc. But method B seems simpler as far as putting the spire together. With method A, there are probably support columns, directly under the spire, in level 20A and below. In fact, those column are probably what I mistook as being the spire in some of those levels.

When jacking begins we will probably find out soon which method is being used, as long as OTR, Imre, and the rest of the camera gang aren't all out of the country at the time.

Last edited by Swiddle; November 6th, 2008 at 04:30 AM.
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Old November 6th, 2008, 04:20 AM   #11610
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hi all.

Ember you have it spot on rounded up 2 meters - top of tier 30 at 730m. is 88m. below 818m.
Also the base from 587 jacked 88m. brings it to 675 - section 20B.


Mithat the base of the pinnacle pipe is at 675m. I'm not sure why it extends down so far internally - perhaps because of the jacking proceedure ?

Cul - I have to agree with Ember to some degree. His math is pretty much the same as mine that I posted weeks ago. Only thing is all of the pinnacle pipe does not have to be up there right now. They could jack some then add under what is jacked - seems like a more difficult thing to do though.

Cul the lifting equipment uses long cables that extend down and attaches to the bottom of how ever much pipe they have up there. Hydraulic jacks will lift the long lines (and the pinnacle) up as high as their rams are long (perhaps 2 feet - ?) then the lines will be clamped to hold them and the jacks reset thus doing the lift in steps. The wheel looking things we saw in pics are just semi-circular channels for the long lines.

If the pipe is only down to section 20B they can only jack 17m. or so then they would have to add some under what is jacked and attach the lifting lines to the bottom of that. Repeat 4 more times. This is another possible scenario but it just seems like a bitch to move that added piece into the steel structure and actually get it underneith.

Either way lets get to some jackin'

EDIT - Swiddle. Excelent wording man. You have the 2 proceedures explained perfectly. Beat me to the punch - dam 2 finger typin' ... lol

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Last edited by Fury; November 6th, 2008 at 04:26 AM.
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Old November 6th, 2008, 06:19 AM   #11611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiddle View Post
In some ways method A seems simpler -- no holes to patch in all the levels between concrete top and 20B, less overall weight lifted, shorter lifting cables, etc. But method B seems simpler as far as putting the spire together. With method A, there are probably support columns, directly under the spire, in level 20A and below. In fact, those column are probably what I mistook as being the spire in some of those levels.
Swiddle: nice analysis however you mention it would be less weight lifted when in fact the weight lifted will be exactly the same for the last lift in case A since at that time the same spire will be lifted in both cases!

To me looking at it from a construction point of view it seems much simpler to assemble the entire spire before starting to lift it. It would also explain where the concrete stops and the steel begins.
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Old November 6th, 2008, 07:00 AM   #11612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiddle View Post
When jacking begins we will probably find out soon which method is being used, as long as OTR, Imre, and the rest of the camera gang aren't all out of the country at the time.
No jacking yet this morning...







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Old November 6th, 2008, 07:07 AM   #11613
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almost done uh?
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Old November 6th, 2008, 08:00 AM   #11614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ember-To-Ashes View Post
if you recall the video that showed us how the spire was jacked up, it started on the lower levels! seeing as wat we see now is the top, this makes perfect sense. we dont "know" it starts where u say it does. it could have easily been hidden and the base could be lower down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH19J8ZF4Bk
Just how reliable is this video? Because the procedure it shows seems so appealingly simple! I'm rather swayed by the argument that adding new sections of spire (which can't really be greater than 1 'floor' in height, can they[?]) below those which have already been jacked seems unnecessarily complicated. Wish I spoke Korean!

Edit: can those arguing against the "the spire's all there already!" opinion explain how they envisage the base of the spire getting to where it needs to be?
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Old November 6th, 2008, 08:46 AM   #11615
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replying to extemee jealousy.....................WOW. itlll be done completed for man kind to make history,,,,,,,,,go muslim emirarates of dubai
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Old November 6th, 2008, 01:00 PM   #11616
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Quoted, so we don't hear again (hopless) the $800M speculations


Quote:
Originally Posted by AltinD View Post
The main construction package which consists of the main concrete and steel structure ONLY, awarded to Samsung/Arabtec/Besix JV was $800M, however I am sure they are already over budged.

That package did not include architecture engineering and design (by SOM), project management fees and feasibility studies, foundation and substructure work, MEP (Mechanical, Electrical, Plumbing) work, External cladding, Lifts and escalators, fire safety systems, security and automated controls, landscaping, decorative lighting, marketing and so on ... well, you get the idea.

The total tower costs were estimated to be around $4Billion, but that figure is more then 1 year old anyway.

However the mentioned possibility of costs rising to $8Billion is highly unlikely.
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Old November 6th, 2008, 02:50 PM   #11617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msradell View Post
Swiddle: nice analysis however you mention it would be less weight lifted when in fact the weight lifted will be exactly the same for the last lift in case A since at that time the same spire will be lifted in both cases!

To me looking at it from a construction point of view it seems much simpler to assemble the entire spire before starting to lift it. It would also explain where the concrete stops and the steel begins.
You're correct that the lifting equipment will ultimately have to bear the weight of the entire 144m spire in both cases. To clarify what I meant:

With case "A" less work (in the physics sense) will be done by the jacking equipment. (The "saved" work will be done by the crane instead). The bottom most section (~18m) doesn't get lifted at all, but instead is just supported for a short time by the lifting equipment once bolted or welded to the rest of the spire. Then the entire spire is lowered a short distance (maybe a meter or less) until it rests on the floor.

On second thought, the final section might not even get supported by the lifting equipment at all. They could simply attach the final section to the floor of 20B, then lower the rest of the spire down a short distance to rest on the lower section, then bolt/weld together.

Fury, I don't know how I beat you to the punch. Even though I manage to type with 9 fingers, I do it very slowly and make many errors that I have to find and correct. Plus it takes a long time to get the words the way I want them.

Last edited by Swiddle; November 6th, 2008 at 02:55 PM.
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Old November 6th, 2008, 05:10 PM   #11618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC_Zwolle View Post
Mid 2009 if I'm correct and 819m, 2686ft. (Look at the title of this thread!!)
I get the distinct impression by the way the builders have been hedging lately, that the final height will not even make 800metres, let alone 819m. I hope I'm wrong about that though.
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Old November 6th, 2008, 05:48 PM   #11619
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Did elliot told you that?
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Old November 6th, 2008, 06:55 PM   #11620
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I think that when they jack that spire up it will be well over 800M
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