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Megatalls Discussions of projects under construction at least 600m/2,000 ft tall.



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Old August 12th, 2009, 06:44 PM   #19621
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[Img]http://i30.************/2cereir.jpg[/Img]

f*ck!! thats must be hell

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Old August 12th, 2009, 07:06 PM   #19622
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is it planned to build a penthouse on the roof right there?

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Old August 12th, 2009, 07:17 PM   #19623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The-Real-Link View Post
Thanks for the info Gerald. It really puts a new perspective on things :p

Even with a larger screen here, I faintly see what you mean when you have the two BD shots in the same large image side by side.

Could you do a crop of both tops by chance so I could see it more closely please? I'm not doubting there is more detail in the top of the TS shot, it's just hard for me to make out clearly.
We're kind of getting off topic now, so I'll put the 1:1 crop comparison in this thread -

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=909126
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Old August 12th, 2009, 07:38 PM   #19624
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Wow, awesome.
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Old August 12th, 2009, 09:29 PM   #19625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithat View Post
Sorry to say that but...Anyone who has a a good eye or with a technical perspective drawing knowledge will see that.
ORLY?

22mm roughly mimics the human eye. this pic is the distance to the Address. focus: middle of the concrete section.

image hosted on flickr
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Old August 13th, 2009, 01:37 AM   #19626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithat View Post
Sorry to say that but, it doesn't matter whichever expensive lens/camera you're using, the picture on the left is correct and the one on the right is distorted.
Quite true. Or perhaps, to be even more accurate, the picture on the left is less incorrect than the one on the right.

I'd been mulling over bringing this subject up myself. As a long-time lurker, I figured I'd leave it to regular posters... but why not, i'll jump in.

When standing at ground level close to a tall building, the higher floors appear to be shorter than the the lower floors. While the picture on the left is distorted to some degree, it more closely resembles the appearance of the building when viewed in person.

The photo on the right is more like the view seen from far away through binoculars. From far away, all floors will appear to be more similar in height because they are viewed at roughly the same angle from perpendicular.

This can be easily demonstrated by viewing a piece of paper from straight on. It appears to be wider/taller than the same piece of paper when viewed at an angle. The human field of view is roughly 180º. A flat surface will occupy more of that field of view when viewed perpendicular to the that surface.

The upper floors are being viewed from angle, and thus appear smaller. In other words, the upper floors occupy fewer degrees of our field of view than the lower floors. (When viewed from ground level and from a relatively close distance)

I do appreciate the pictures being posted though. Thank you! They are fascinating and really convey how mind bogglingly tall the structure is... despite not being what you would see if viewing the tower in person from the same spot that the pictures were taken from.
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Old August 13th, 2009, 04:27 AM   #19627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithat View Post
Edit: The picture on the left is also not 100% undistorted due to wide angle lens, but if you look at the building only, the proportions and perspective is exactly the same as you're looking at the tower from that point.


Looking at the bottom 1/4 of both pictures. Would you say that the tilt shift shot on the right is 100% accurate compared to what the human eye would see? I believe you could not replicate the shot on the right by standing further back and zooming in. If you did this the perspective would be more compressed and distant objects will appear larger (ie. the building in the front would be smaller?).

The left photo shows distortion due to the camera sensor plane not being parallel to the buildings and the exaggerated perspective distortion caused by wide angle lenses (distant objects appear smaller).

To take an accurate photo of the Burj you would need to:

a) find a distance vantage point, keep the camera level and use a focal length that duplicates what the human eye sees (30-50mm equivalent in full frame?)
b) use an ultra wide lens while keeping the camera level (would need to include more foreground).
c) get a higher vantage point so you won't have to tilt as much (eg. the view from the address hotel?)
d) use a tilt shift lens and use software to correct the stretched proportions at the top of the image?

Correct me if I am wrong about any of these points

Here are some links to threads on perspective and focal length (very interesting):

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...d.php?t=672913
http://www.hash.com/users/jsherwood/...cal/focal.html

Last edited by noms78; August 13th, 2009 at 06:40 AM.
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Old August 13th, 2009, 04:58 AM   #19628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noms78 View Post


Looking at the bottom 1/4 of both pictures. Would you say that the tilt shift shot on the right is 100% accurate compared to what the human eye would see? I believe you could not replicate the shot on the right by standing further back and zooming in. If you did this the perspective would be more compressed and distant objects will appear larger (ie. the building in the front would be smaller?).

The left photo shows distortion due to the camera sensor plane not being parallel to the buildings and the exaggerated perspective distortion caused by wide angle lenses (distant objects appear smaller).

I think the most accurate way to take a photo of the Burj would be to use a focal length that duplicates what the human eye sees (30-50mm equivalent in full frame?) and standing far away enough to take in the whole scene while keeping the camera level (not tilting up). Another technique would be to get higher up and use a wide angle lens so you won't have to tilt as much (eg. the view from the address hotel?)

Correct me if I am wrong about any of these points

Here are some links to threads on perspective and focal length (very interesting):

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...d.php?t=672913
http://www.hash.com/users/jsherwood/...cal/focal.html

I am still a bit confused by some of the ideas.
While the photo on the left is distorted, it is closer to what you would see if actually standing near where the photo was taken. The one on the right mimics what you would see from far away with binoculars. The one on the right makes the upper floors appear to be the same height as the lower floors. Neither is exactly what you would see in person.

Edit: If the photo were taken from higher up as you suggest, the top and the bottom of the tower would be shrunk while the middle would be larger. This is also true for viewing large scenes in person, not just for photography.

Last edited by dfiler; August 13th, 2009 at 05:07 AM.
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Old August 13th, 2009, 06:26 AM   #19629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithat View Post
Sorry to say that but, it doesn't matter whichever expensive lens/camera you're using, the picture on the left is correct and the one on the right is distorted. I have been in that spot myself too, the building looks exactly like on the left picture. Anyone who has a a good eye or with a technical perspective drawing knowledge will see that.

What is wrong with vertical lines are not looking parallel on the picture? if your viewing angle is not parallel to the ground, of course you will have a 3 point perspective. seems like you want to live in a 2 dimensional world?

I'm not saying that you're pictures are bad or your lens is useless... But as with fish eye lenses, your lens shows the world distorted too. Saying that your pictures are the correct look of Burj Dubai is misleading the people who have never seen it before. There is no way you can retain the proportions correct, if your viewing angle is not perpendicular to the film surface. And that is more visible at the spire, which looks much taller than the real thing.


Edit: The picture on the left is also not 100% undistorted due to wide angle lens, but if you look at the building only, the proportions and perspective is exactly the same as you're looking at the tower from that point.
You need to get your eyes tested.

Doesn't matter what part of the Burj you look, you will NOT see the opposite sides of the building converging. In fact, doesn't matter where you look in the scene - every vertical line will look vertical with your eyes.

/edit

I should also add that the idea that all wide angle lenses distort is simply not true. Sure, there are many wide angle lenses that do distort, but this lens - like others available - is rectilinear. The following image demonstrates this:



(there is a very slight downward convergence on that one because it was hand-held, and I didn't quite get the camera straight)

MODS - suggest moving posts related to this side discussion to the specific thread about the lens since it is getting rather off topic?

Last edited by gerald.d; August 13th, 2009 at 06:38 AM.
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Old August 13th, 2009, 06:54 AM   #19630
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even in that picture, besides the fact that the camera was pointed slightly down, the lake hotel still looks a little funky to me.
is that how it looks like in real life?

but anyways, to truly eliminate all distortion, you need one of these. :P


now back on subject. lol
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Old August 13th, 2009, 07:20 AM   #19631
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Hi all.

Nice update Imre - thanks.

Question - is the 53 degree reading somewhat elevated by the metal of the car or was it really 53 in the shade there ? Also what was the approx. relative humidity ?

Frick - I feel like I'm melting at 35 with low humidity ...

The cladding is looking good. Just a few of the top sections of each tier left to go.

Real wannabe. The terraces have structures that mitigate the wind. The curved metal structure is part of that.

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Old August 13th, 2009, 07:22 AM   #19632
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Basic Perspective Factor

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
...When standing at ground level close to a tall building, the higher floors appear to be shorter than the the lower floors. While the picture on the left is distorted to some degree, it more closely resembles the appearance of the building when viewed in person....
Yes, this is commonly referred to as 'forced perspective' when used on purpose. Ol' Walt Disney and the gang did this back when they built Main Street at the original Disneyland. Those phoney second story floors on all the buildings are shorter of scale than the usable first floors which have shops and rides,etc. Theatrical set designers also utilize a lot of similar tricks related to creating structural illusions but it is all based upon how our eyes and brains perceive REAL buildings when we look at them from ground level...So this monster is a place where that is naturally going to happen.
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Old August 13th, 2009, 04:00 PM   #19633
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13/August/2009

Burj Dubai

[IMG]http://i32.************/14j3sq9.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i32.************/2rqbxaa.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i28.************/11sfep2.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i30.************/2jwao2.jpg[/IMG]
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Old August 13th, 2009, 05:33 PM   #19634
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13/August/2009

Burj Dubai from the Business Bay

[IMG]http://i32.************/xbd1ew.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i27.************/ay0lxl.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i25.************/33w1s08.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i32.************/331do2h.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i28.************/5a3r0k.jpg[/IMG]
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Old August 13th, 2009, 05:46 PM   #19635
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I think Dfiler gave the best answer you can imagine about the photo discussion. So let's get on topic now, or talk about it in another section, I don't know which one but the phototechnics like Gerald will know.
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Old August 13th, 2009, 11:29 PM   #19636
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Went to TGI Fridays for dinner, here yet again some pics of the fountain. Also, security wasnt watching and we were able to walk up close to Burj Dubai.















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Old August 13th, 2009, 11:52 PM   #19637
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The right photo is correct if you put your eye about 5cm horizontally away from the base of the tower. The left photo is correct if you tilt your monitor down and look up at it with your eye 5cm away from the centre of the tower.
So it totally depends on how you view the picture... no right or wrong photo.

p.s. has anyone figured out the reason for the floor with clear glass facade? A viewing floor perhaps?
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Old August 14th, 2009, 03:16 AM   #19638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Diver View Post
More floors are now lit up at night, but still surprisingly few for this late in the game.
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Old August 14th, 2009, 04:24 AM   #19639
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Amazings photos Dennis River, Slowly, they begin to illuminate the floors, and there is still much work to do to complete the entry
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Old August 14th, 2009, 07:39 AM   #19640
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great shots, diver. lol, is security usually this lenient?
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